awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)

Thanks everyone!

Well done, mate! Will it be fulltime or partime studying? I'm considering going back to school too.

"Well done, mate! Will it be fulltime or partime studying? I'm considering going back to school too."

Part time at this point, as I need to keep my job at the bank for at least two more years. It should take me 3 years or so to complete the program.

""If we can bring together a vision of our innate potential with the compassion that recognizes and accepts where we are as human beings, our path can be caring and honest while being rich in creative potential. Our path must begin from where we are, not from some false distortion of ourselves in an attempt to be spiritual and special. Grandiosity comes when we get hooked on our visions and fail to live honestly and compassionately with our fallibility. There is nobility in our humanity and when we truly accept and surrender, we open naturally to our clear, brilliant nature because it is always there in the present in each moment. As we do so we must learn to live with a central paradox, which is that while we may endeavor to change and grow, change actually comes when we accept fully what is." ~Rob Preece, The Wisdom of Imperfection: The Challenge of Individuation in Buddhist Life (a book that I am very much enjoying)."

Bravo!
Wonderful quote, Jackson!

I second Jake's applause for the quote. I'd never heard of Rob Preece before. He put that very well. Really gets at the heart of where my practice / approach to life / understanding of reality has been tending lately.

This line, in particular, gets at something that I notice becoming more and more true: "Our path must begin from where we are, not from some false distortion of ourselves in an attempt to be spiritual and special."

Damn straight. Honesty and authenticity matter. In fact, they matter so much that you will get absolutely nowhere until you are addressing just the truth about you. It took me quite some time to really get that, and my guess is it takes everybody some time. The Dark Night is about the process of revelaing what you truly are and gaining equanimity with that so that you can work with it effectively. It's a process of gaining perspective and a willingness to be with what you are. Painful, but very, very much worthwhile.

"The method that the Buddha discovered is meditation. He discovered that struggling to find answers did not work. It was only when there were gaps in his struggle that insights came to him. He began to realize that there was a sane, awake quality within him which manifested itself only in the absence of struggle. So the practice of meditation involves 'letting be.'" ~Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

Gotta love Trungpa.

~Jackson

"
Damn straight. Honesty and authenticity matter. In fact, they matter so much that you will get absolutely nowhere until you are addressing just the truth about you. It took me quite some time to really get that, and my guess is it takes everybody some time. The Dark Night is about the process of revelaing what you truly are and gaining equanimity with that so that you can work with it effectively. It's a process of gaining perspective and a willingness to be with what you are. Painful, but very, very much worthwhile.

"

Really nice and helpful way to describe the "Dark Night."

"Really nice and helpful way to describe the "Dark Night."
"

And, could the reason that people still continue to go through dark night periods after first path is that there continues to be personal stuff to discover and gain equanimity with?

"And, could the reason that people still continue to go through dark night periods after first path is that there continues to be personal stuff to discover and gain equanimity with? "

I am of the opinion that the dark night symptoms are related to chakras somehow and the whole cleaning out process that seems to be going on in the body. I am always feeling my "stuff" ie. emotions at mainly the solar plexus, heart and throat areas. That is where I "experience" the dark night. My mental reactions to those sensations that flow at those areas correspond to each of the stages in the dukkha nanas. When the energy or flow of whatever seems to shift from the throat to the brow area, that is when the mind shifts into low-mid equanimity for me. Then high equanimity at the crown, fruition, then back down to the base chakra to start the same process again. It probabaly isnt so simple as this, and my opinion will proably change as to what is really going on later. There are always cycles within cycles within cycles. So it "seems" to be a contiuing energetic cleaning out process at the moment. But like I said, I'll probably change my opinion later.

Perhaps the dark night is simpler than all of that'¦

The dark night stages are revealed when we can no longer remain blissfully ignorant of the unsatisfactory nature of our dualistic experience. We can try to ignore the suffering, but in the end it always overtakes us. We have to come to terms with it, and really except it, before we can have equanimity.

To use an analogy from the Matrix (which is becoming rather cliché), by embarking on the path we chose to take the red pill. We've been sucked out of the matrix, more or less, and are now faced with the dire situation that is our personal existence. That's the dark night in a nutshell.

~Jackson

Our "stuff" never goes away, if by stuff we mean our humanity

Yes, what Jackson just said. I'm with that.

"
Yes, what Jackson just said. I'm with that.

"

I always tell my fiance that I took the red pill and now I can't go back to being blissfully ignorant. I took the damn red pill! (usually said to myself in the dark night)


I think our "humanity" never goes away, but, and this might be becasue I am still somewhat brainwashed by Goenka's discourses on eradicating sankharas, but in my experience, my anger, hatred, depression, sadness have grown weaker and weaker over the years of being "equanimous" with the sensations related to them. Do you guys not feel a change in some of those emotions? Haven't they softened somewhat for you? ....I guess though, they sometimes seem to flair up more so in the dark night...but for me, I feel them getting less and less potent even during the dark night. Or perhaps my equanimity is getting stronger and stronger. Hmmmmm....


Sorry Chris, I meant to say never. Edited to include never !!!

Our humanity never goes away.

I experience no decrease in emotion, Stephen. What I notice is that what does occur by way of emotion takes place in a somewhat different awareness - a large open container that used to be a smaller, closed-in container. But everything is still there, doing what it always did. What has changed is my relationship to it. I know what it is, how it works. I know it just is, and always will be. It's not owned, not life threatening or frightening. Just.... there.

"Do you guys not feel a change in some of those emotions? Haven't they softened somewhat for you? ....I guess though, they sometimes seem to flair up more so in the dark night...but for me, I feel them getting less and less potent even during the dark night. Or perhaps my equanimity is getting stronger and stronger. Hmmmmm...."

I wouldn't say that I've experienced a reduction in any particular emotions themselves. I'll try to put it another way'¦

Emotions arise based on conditions. I can't control whether or not a particular energy is going to arise in my experience based on my past conditioning (aka, karma). However, the quality of the experience may be different depending on whether or not I resist or grasp at the energy. Shinzen Young talks about experiencing anger without aversion as a type energetic massaging. It's the energy of anger all right, but there's less suffering when it's allowed to do its thing without interference.

It actually works in a similar way with pleasant sensations. When we don't grasp at them or attempt to artificially prolong them, the experience is more deeply satisfying.

At least that's my experience at this point.

"
Our humanity never goes away.

"

Sorry Chris, I agree with that. I edited to include never. Typo!

In the Goenka tradition there is much talk about decreasing and even eradicating the overwhleming nature of the "stuff" that comes up. Don't know about eradicating but in my experience, over my nine years of "being equanimous" to sensations, I did feel certain reactions of my own to certain sensations change. My experience tells me being equanimous to sensations, allowing them to arise and pass away without multiplying their strength through a mental reaction to them, did help me come out of longer reaction times to say, sensations of anger and depression. I guess on hindsight, my equanimity gave me the ability to stop reacting to the sensations that were related to many negative emotions thus allowing them to pass away sooner without getting strengthened , like a line in sand as opposed to a line in the stone. Because of this habit of letting the sensations be there without a mental reaction, they have dissipated somewhat in strength. That is why I say my anger is less. But I could be wrong of course. I am still human though. Hehe!

Stephen, no need to apologize.

See, I perceive the universe as being chock full of wonder. Some of the most wonderful things are those that exist by virtue of us being us -- being human and all that means. We impart the beauty. The good, the bad, all of it. To try to artificially reduce all that gorgeous, happy, beautiful, painful and sad magnificence is, in my humblest opinion, a really bad idea. Another wondrous thing about the universe is that we can learn to interact with it in a different way, not by suppressing our humanity but by appreciating it, understanding it, knowing it better, letting it just be. That's the Path.

"
Stephen, no need to apologize.

See, I perceive the universe as being chock full of wonder. Some of the most wonderful things are those that exist by virtue of us being us -- being human and all that means. We impart the beauty. The good, the bad, all of it. To try to artificially reduce all that gorgeous, happy, beautiful, painful and sad magnificence is, in my humblest opinion, a really bad idea. Another wondrous thing about the universe is that we can learn to interact with it in a different way, not by suppressing our humanity but by appreciating it, understanding it, knowing it better, letting it just be. That's the Path.

"

Although i would have preferred to have been called Stephen, my grandparents got their way and called me Nikolai. Hehe!

Yeh, I understand where you are coming from. No probs. I just feel my anger and hatred and certain sensations that when reacted to caused me so much misery have become less and less over time. Just my experience. Now that the anger is less, there is more space for it's opposite. But I am not trying to uphold any model of enlightenment, just saying it "seems" that way for me, that the sensations related to the emotions, especially the ones that caused so much misery, have grown less and less potent and in my face so to speak. It could because of the changes in perception or equanimity has grown strong, I've not looked into it in great detail. PErsonally, I'd prefer for the negative emotions not to arise at all. A life without anger is an ideal life for me. But I really don't know, I might be talking out my arse. Hehe! My opinions are all in a flux and flow. Sorry for taking up space on your thread Jackson.

Yeah, I'm sorry about that.... Nikolai.

"I'd prefer for the negative emotions not to arise at all. A life without anger is an ideal life for me. But I really don't know, I might be talking out my arse. Hehe! My opinions are all in a flux and flow. Sorry for taking up space on your thread Jackson."

First off, don't worry about taking up space on "my" thread. This is good stuff.

Second, I think we need to be careful of which emotions we label as "negative." Take anger, for instance. Anger as an experienced emotion is not negative. It can be understood as a protector of boundaries, or even a protector of ourselves and those we love. For example, you have a child who runs toward a busy street. You run out and grab the child, pull them to safety, and safe with some force, "Listen! You cannot run away from me like that! You could get hurt!" Or say you are walking down the street and you see a woman being assaulted. Do you walk up to the mugger and say, "Um, gee whiz, sir. I think it would be swell if you would walk away now," or would it be better to express some healthy anger and shout, "Hey, get off of her NOW! Get out of here!" Not only are you helping the woman by expressing anger, but in a karmic sense, protecting the mugger from creating more negative karma than would have been otherwise. See what I mean?

If we don't learn to work with our anger skillfully, we won't know how to use it effectively when the time arises. Wishing to never experience this "negative" emotion can do more harm than good, in my opinion. Of course, my point of view regarding emotions comes more from a Western psychological perspective.

~Jackson

"
"

I get what you are saying. But I would not equate the anger you might feel, as some righteous anger that helps you save someone from a mugger, or chastising a kid for nearly getting hit by a car with the anger i am referring to. In my experience they are two different kinds of anger with very different sensations felt on the body.

The anger I am referring to, is "negative" through and through. It is me having a hissy fit and slamming doors and causing misery for those around me without any thought for their wellbeing . This is an extreme example. This anger has a different feel to it than the anger one feels which is mixed with compassion like the examples you gave. They are not the same sensation in my case. I have more control in the case of the type of anger you refer to. it is a channelled anger that you use to do good things, like save a kid and show him the stupidity of his action, as well as the mugger's action. They are related of course, but you have to admit, an anger that makes you kill another being versus an anger that helps you save another being in my opinion differ, because one is mixed more with hate and the other with compassion. I am all for the anger that helps one do good. So I will rephrase what I said. I would love to come out of all the negative emotions that may cause me to make myself miserable and in turn spill that misery on anyone unfortunate to be around me for no better reason than my own stupid ignorance.

I feel them differently on the body in my experience. The sensations where the anger is just negative and has no positve purpose has a very hot bitter feel to it, felt in the chest mostly. An anger that causes one to commit an action out of compassion for someone has a different feel to it. i can't remember when I saved someone out of anger last, haha! but I do know it is not the same sensation. It is not as hot and bitter. Again, only in my experience. Probably different for others.

"I get what you are saying. But I would not equate the anger you might feel, as some righteous anger that helps you save someone from a mugger, or chastising a kid for nearly getting hit by a car with the anger i am referring to. In my experience they are two different kinds of anger with very different sensations felt on the body..."

OK, I see the difference. I'm not sure it's a difference so much in the category of emotion, as they are both composed of the same "anger" energy. I think one's level of emotional maturity makes all the difference.

[Don't get me wrong. I am in no way saying that you are immature for experiencing a more selfish, reactive flavor of anger. I get angry in that way, too, more often than I would like to admit. And I consider myself to be somewhat emotionally mature, especially for only being 27 years old (it takes work!).]

I think that Buddhist practice (or contemplative practice in general), when developed in a healthy way, encourages one's growth into emotional maturity. By simply bringing our attention to our emotions and letting them run their course, we are well on our way to forming new, healthier expressions of them.

So yes! I think that one can learn to experience less selfish, reactive anger through practice. But the idea that any emotional energy should be completely cut out of one's life is, to me, a recipe for disaster. Let's be honest - most of the time people are just suppressing their "negative" emotions while only thinking that they have been uprooted. That would be capital 'D' - Delusion.

Below are two links to episodes of The New Man Podcast that feature integral psychotherapist Robert Augustus Masters. I really like his perspective on anger.

Robert Augustus Masters Pt 1 - The World Needs More Anger. - bit.ly/bLCsc2

Robert Augustus Masters Pt 2 - What Do You Do With Your Anger? - bit.ly/cy1NP9