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- awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57686
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
The teaching, 'If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!' started making a lot of sense to me this evening.
- sparqi
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57687
by sparqi
Replied by sparqi on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
sometimes its the compassionate thing to do? hehehehe
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57688
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
"sometimes its the compassionate thing to do? hehehehe"
You could say that, I suppose
I think the teaching can also be rephrased as something like, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, don't hug him."
Don't fall and worship at his feet. Don't pitch a tent and stick around for teachings. Don't try to merge into union with the Buddha. Don't follow him in another direction.
Pass the Buddha, giving him a nod, and keep walking. If he tries to stop you, kill him.
You could say that, I suppose
I think the teaching can also be rephrased as something like, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, don't hug him."
Don't fall and worship at his feet. Don't pitch a tent and stick around for teachings. Don't try to merge into union with the Buddha. Don't follow him in another direction.
Pass the Buddha, giving him a nod, and keep walking. If he tries to stop you, kill him.
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57689
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
I've been going through the most stressful time of my life. No need to expound upon all of the details, but things have not been good.
If it weren't for my meditation practice, I'm sure I would handling the issues in much more of a self-destructive manner. This is where the rubber meets the road. I am so, so thankful to all of my teachers and dharma friends that have helped me to develop a good practice with results that are noticeably beneficial.
3rd gear practice is where it's at for me right now. Emptiness is total freedom.
If it weren't for my meditation practice, I'm sure I would handling the issues in much more of a self-destructive manner. This is where the rubber meets the road. I am so, so thankful to all of my teachers and dharma friends that have helped me to develop a good practice with results that are noticeably beneficial.
3rd gear practice is where it's at for me right now. Emptiness is total freedom.
- ClaytonL
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57690
by ClaytonL
Replied by ClaytonL on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
Hey Jackson,
I think I can begin to relate to 'if you see the buddha etc...' Yesterday I was down visiting my local monastery library and a bunch of monks came in. (Shocking right) At one point in my practice I would have though something along the lines of, "wow these people are so much better than me, so holy, so attained, etc" while I still respect then, I don't feel that divide anymore... In fact in many ways I feel more privileged than them in my practice, because I get to practice the dharma in (what I would imagine to be) a wider range of circumstances. Speaking of which--hope yours work out for the best...
I think I can begin to relate to 'if you see the buddha etc...' Yesterday I was down visiting my local monastery library and a bunch of monks came in. (Shocking right) At one point in my practice I would have though something along the lines of, "wow these people are so much better than me, so holy, so attained, etc" while I still respect then, I don't feel that divide anymore... In fact in many ways I feel more privileged than them in my practice, because I get to practice the dharma in (what I would imagine to be) a wider range of circumstances. Speaking of which--hope yours work out for the best...
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57691
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
"I've been going through the most stressful time of my life. No need to expound upon all of the details, but things have not been good."
Best of luck. Sincerely.
From what I've heard, no amount of practice / awakening / realization overrides the fact that life is a sh*t-storm at times.
May you weather the storm well.
Best of luck. Sincerely.
From what I've heard, no amount of practice / awakening / realization overrides the fact that life is a sh*t-storm at times.
May you weather the storm well.
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57692
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
Thanks Clayton and Ryan.
The first noble truth never gets less true. No matter who we are, or what we've attained, there will be suffering. How fortunate are those who come to know the happiness that does not depend upon conditions.
The first noble truth never gets less true. No matter who we are, or what we've attained, there will be suffering. How fortunate are those who come to know the happiness that does not depend upon conditions.
- Cartago
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57693
by Cartago
Replied by Cartago on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
Hi Jackson,
It's been an exhilarating journey for me so far. Second path has brought an insane spaciousness and calm into my life but what I am also realising, is that as you have said, suffering remains. Best thoughts and wishes for you during this stressful time. I can empathize with you, as right now, my personal life is hell on earth and yet, as you have indicated, I'd be in hell if it weren't for what has come upon me. Take care
Paul
It's been an exhilarating journey for me so far. Second path has brought an insane spaciousness and calm into my life but what I am also realising, is that as you have said, suffering remains. Best thoughts and wishes for you during this stressful time. I can empathize with you, as right now, my personal life is hell on earth and yet, as you have indicated, I'd be in hell if it weren't for what has come upon me. Take care
Paul
- NikolaiStephenHalay
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57694
by NikolaiStephenHalay
Replied by NikolaiStephenHalay on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
I'm there with you Jackson! This is something we definitely all share in common. Although ever since I started noting once again, having stopped that practice once I'd gotten 1st path I feel like I am back in control and a little more on top of it all. Is it just me or is meditating and doing all this dharma work make suffering a lot more obvious?
Lot's a good fruition soaked vibey metta for you!
Lot's a good fruition soaked vibey metta for you!
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57695
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
Resting as natural wakefulness this morning, something that Kenneth used to frequently say became all the more clear. In any given moment, you're either Buddha-ing or you're not. You're either awake or you're not. Even arahats have to put up or shut up. Are you awake in this moment or not? (not direct quotes)
Ajahn Amaro, a Western monk of the Thai Forest tradition of Theravada Buddhism, teaches something similar. Buddha usually means "one who is awake" or "awakened one." So, the Buddha (or "Buddho" as they say in the Thai tradition) is that within us that is already awake right now. When we take refuge in the Buddha/Buddho, we take refuge in our own natural wakefulness. Recognizing and surrendering to this awareness is Awakening. It is complete in each moment, regardless of one's degree of developmental progress.
This wakefulness, this Buddho, is our birthright as sentient beings. Life is short. Recognize your true nature in this very life, in this very moment. Why wait any longer?
Ajahn Amaro, a Western monk of the Thai Forest tradition of Theravada Buddhism, teaches something similar. Buddha usually means "one who is awake" or "awakened one." So, the Buddha (or "Buddho" as they say in the Thai tradition) is that within us that is already awake right now. When we take refuge in the Buddha/Buddho, we take refuge in our own natural wakefulness. Recognizing and surrendering to this awareness is Awakening. It is complete in each moment, regardless of one's degree of developmental progress.
This wakefulness, this Buddho, is our birthright as sentient beings. Life is short. Recognize your true nature in this very life, in this very moment. Why wait any longer?
- NikolaiStephenHalay
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57696
by NikolaiStephenHalay
Replied by NikolaiStephenHalay on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
"Resting as natural wakefulness this morning, something that Kenneth used to frequently say became all the more clear. In any given moment, you're either Buddha-ing or you're not. You're either awake or you're not. Even arahats have to put up or shut up. Are you awake in this moment or not? (not direct quotes)
Ajahn Amaro, a Western monk of the Thai Forest tradition of Theravada Buddhism, teaches something similar. Buddha usually means "one who is awake" or "awakened one." So, the Buddha (or "Buddho" as they say in the Thai tradition) is that within us that is already awake right now. When we take refuge in the Buddha/Buddho, we take refuge in our own natural wakefulness. Recognizing and surrendering to this awareness is Awakening. It is complete in each moment, regardless of one's degree of developmental progress.
This wakefulness, this Buddho, is our birthright as sentient beings. Life is short. Recognize your true nature in this very life, in this very moment. Why wait any longer?"
If remember my pali studies "Buddho" is the subject conjugation, BuddIham being the object. might be wrong, it was awhile agi that I studied it.
So I've always thought when the thai monks use it as a mantra for concentration that it refers to the buddha within. You are in essence .."Buddho"!
Ajahn Amaro, a Western monk of the Thai Forest tradition of Theravada Buddhism, teaches something similar. Buddha usually means "one who is awake" or "awakened one." So, the Buddha (or "Buddho" as they say in the Thai tradition) is that within us that is already awake right now. When we take refuge in the Buddha/Buddho, we take refuge in our own natural wakefulness. Recognizing and surrendering to this awareness is Awakening. It is complete in each moment, regardless of one's degree of developmental progress.
This wakefulness, this Buddho, is our birthright as sentient beings. Life is short. Recognize your true nature in this very life, in this very moment. Why wait any longer?"
If remember my pali studies "Buddho" is the subject conjugation, BuddIham being the object. might be wrong, it was awhile agi that I studied it.
So I've always thought when the thai monks use it as a mantra for concentration that it refers to the buddha within. You are in essence .."Buddho"!
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57697
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
At Hokai Sobol's blog archive (Wicked Samadhi -
hokai.info/ws/
) he defines "samadhi" as:
"... a state of integration in which luminosity, void, and playfulness function freely, dissolving separation of inner vs outer, sacred vs profane, and ultimate vs relative without confusion."
Sign me up!
"... a state of integration in which luminosity, void, and playfulness function freely, dissolving separation of inner vs outer, sacred vs profane, and ultimate vs relative without confusion."
Sign me up!
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57698
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
I haven't been posting much because it's been difficult for me to put my practice into words.
One thing I can say is that practice is no longer about seeking and attaining. It's about recognizing and expressing.
I would write more about this if I could, but words escape me.
One thing I can say is that practice is no longer about seeking and attaining. It's about recognizing and expressing.
I would write more about this if I could, but words escape me.
- roomy
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57699
by roomy
Replied by roomy on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
"I haven't been posting much because it's been difficult for me to put my practice into words.
One thing I can say is that practice is no longer about seeking and attaining. It's about recognizing and expressing.
I would write more about this if I could, but words escape me."
Hey, Jackson-- just so you know, I have been enjoying your increasingly wordless state of appreciation. An axiom about the gradations of Tantric practice is 'the higher the Tantra, the lower the throne [where the Lama sits to give teachings]'-- that is to say, the more subtle the differences between 'ordinary life' and 'practice' become, as practice bears fruit. Until there is no distinction to be made. [This gets called 'integration', but that implies putting two separate things together-- a patent absurdity in the event.]
I've noticed that there seems to be a corollary in written dharma-- the higher the teachings, the briefer and more allusive they are. We wind up with 'pointing out instructions' that amount to gestures whose entire content is the recognition that wakes in the student. Like birdwatching-- 'over there; see?' 'Oh, yeah!'
One thing I can say is that practice is no longer about seeking and attaining. It's about recognizing and expressing.
I would write more about this if I could, but words escape me."
Hey, Jackson-- just so you know, I have been enjoying your increasingly wordless state of appreciation. An axiom about the gradations of Tantric practice is 'the higher the Tantra, the lower the throne [where the Lama sits to give teachings]'-- that is to say, the more subtle the differences between 'ordinary life' and 'practice' become, as practice bears fruit. Until there is no distinction to be made. [This gets called 'integration', but that implies putting two separate things together-- a patent absurdity in the event.]
I've noticed that there seems to be a corollary in written dharma-- the higher the teachings, the briefer and more allusive they are. We wind up with 'pointing out instructions' that amount to gestures whose entire content is the recognition that wakes in the student. Like birdwatching-- 'over there; see?' 'Oh, yeah!'
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57700
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
"Hey, Jackson-- just so you know, I have been enjoying your increasingly wordless state of appreciation. An axiom about the gradations of Tantric practice is 'the higher the Tantra, the lower the throne [where the Lama sits to give teachings]'-- that is to say, the more subtle the differences between 'ordinary life' and 'practice' become, as practice bears fruit. Until there is no distinction to be made. [This gets called 'integration', but that implies putting two separate things together-- a patent absurdity in the event.]
I've noticed that there seems to be a corollary in written dharma-- the higher the teachings, the briefer and more allusive they are. We wind up with 'pointing out instructions' that amount to gestures whose entire content is the recognition that wakes in the student. Like birdwatching-- 'over there; see?' 'Oh, yeah!'"
Thanks, roomy.
I also like the way that the Zen tradition talks about this process, particularly in terms of "mountains and waters." I feel as though I've come to a place in my practice where mountains are again mountains, and waters are again waters. Naturally, there isn't much to say about my own practice. It's a nice place to be.
As the Zen poet Ryokan said:
"If someone asks what is the mark of enlightenment or illusion,
I cannot say -- wealth and honor are nothing but dust,
As the evening rain falls, I sit in my hermitage
And stretch out both feet in answer."
In my case, I sit my apartment with my wife, watching movies, eating burritos, and drinking diet coke. Just this.
I've noticed that there seems to be a corollary in written dharma-- the higher the teachings, the briefer and more allusive they are. We wind up with 'pointing out instructions' that amount to gestures whose entire content is the recognition that wakes in the student. Like birdwatching-- 'over there; see?' 'Oh, yeah!'"
Thanks, roomy.
I also like the way that the Zen tradition talks about this process, particularly in terms of "mountains and waters." I feel as though I've come to a place in my practice where mountains are again mountains, and waters are again waters. Naturally, there isn't much to say about my own practice. It's a nice place to be.
As the Zen poet Ryokan said:
"If someone asks what is the mark of enlightenment or illusion,
I cannot say -- wealth and honor are nothing but dust,
As the evening rain falls, I sit in my hermitage
And stretch out both feet in answer."
In my case, I sit my apartment with my wife, watching movies, eating burritos, and drinking diet coke. Just this.
- AlexWeith
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57701
by AlexWeith
Replied by AlexWeith on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
Wonderful! Congratulations Jackson! You will agree that it feels so simple and natural that there is no room for doing anything else than "siting in our apartment with our spouse, watching movies, eating burritos, and drinking diet coke...".
For the first time, sitting it really 'just sitting'. Interestingly, we realize that the first zazen was already IT, but that it took years of dedicated practice to realize this simple truth.
For the first time, sitting it really 'just sitting'. Interestingly, we realize that the first zazen was already IT, but that it took years of dedicated practice to realize this simple truth.
- cmarti
- Topic Author
15 years 8 months ago #57702
by cmarti
That trip we take, the Path, is quite necessary but it does become clear at some point that the actual distance traveled is very short.
Love
Replied by cmarti on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
That trip we take, the Path, is quite necessary but it does become clear at some point that the actual distance traveled is very short.
Love
- AlexWeith
- Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #57703
by AlexWeith
Replied by AlexWeith on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
Ox and self forgotten.
Nothing to do and nowhere to go.
The full circle is complete.
Return to the origin.
Can't believe how stupid I have been to miss the obvious!
I love you all! I thank you all!
Nothing to do and nowhere to go.
The full circle is complete.
Return to the origin.
Can't believe how stupid I have been to miss the obvious!
I love you all! I thank you all!
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #57704
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
"Ox and self forgotten.
Nothing to do and nowhere to go.
The full circle is complete.
Return to the origin.
Can't believe how stupid I have been to miss the obvious!
I love you all! I thank you all!
"
Beautiful, Alex. Thank you. The Ox Herding pictures have played a major role in our communications over the last few months, haven't they?
Nothing to do and nowhere to go.
The full circle is complete.
Return to the origin.
Can't believe how stupid I have been to miss the obvious!
I love you all! I thank you all!
"
Beautiful, Alex. Thank you. The Ox Herding pictures have played a major role in our communications over the last few months, haven't they?
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #57705
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
When I started this thread, I ended the first post with this:
"If I could offer one tip to yogis at any level of practice, including those who have experience far above and beyond my own, it would be this: trust your own natural wakefulness."
I stand by that statement, now more than ever.
"If I could offer one tip to yogis at any level of practice, including those who have experience far above and beyond my own, it would be this: trust your own natural wakefulness."
I stand by that statement, now more than ever.
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #57706
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
I remembered something during practice that I thought might be valuable to others who are practice along the lines of Kenneth's Three Speeds.
The way it is formulated, 3rd gear is upstream from 2nd gear, and 2nd gear is upstream from 1st gear. It would seem that one must progress from 1st gear to 2nd gear prior to the experience of 3rd gear. However, this need not be the case.
There are times when doing vipassana (noting) practice can lead to the dissolution of identification to the point of awakening to the always-already. If this occurs, simply surrender. In other words, one may skip gears if one's practice leads that way naturally.
In the recent past, I have advocated using the practices of the Three Speeds as an algorithm. I know this wasn't really Kenneth's intent, as he sees the Three Speeds more as a set of tools one may keep in their yogi's toolbox. And he's right. They can be used in an algorithmic way, but they may also be practiced in whichever order is beneficial to the yogi at any given moment.
Let's keep working with these techniques and discovering new ways of applying them, so that we can help ourselves and others to awaken as quickly as possible!
~Jackson
The way it is formulated, 3rd gear is upstream from 2nd gear, and 2nd gear is upstream from 1st gear. It would seem that one must progress from 1st gear to 2nd gear prior to the experience of 3rd gear. However, this need not be the case.
There are times when doing vipassana (noting) practice can lead to the dissolution of identification to the point of awakening to the always-already. If this occurs, simply surrender. In other words, one may skip gears if one's practice leads that way naturally.
In the recent past, I have advocated using the practices of the Three Speeds as an algorithm. I know this wasn't really Kenneth's intent, as he sees the Three Speeds more as a set of tools one may keep in their yogi's toolbox. And he's right. They can be used in an algorithmic way, but they may also be practiced in whichever order is beneficial to the yogi at any given moment.
Let's keep working with these techniques and discovering new ways of applying them, so that we can help ourselves and others to awaken as quickly as possible!
~Jackson
- AlexWeith
- Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #57707
by AlexWeith
Replied by AlexWeith on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
Ox Herding pictures: lol - we somehow knew that they contained the answer to our question "what are we missing?".
Three Speeds: right. That's also what I have discovered. It's more like driving a car. I must say that the simplicity of Kenneth's method in only equaled by its profundity.
Three Speeds: right. That's also what I have discovered. It's more like driving a car. I must say that the simplicity of Kenneth's method in only equaled by its profundity.
- cmarti
- Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #57708
by cmarti
""what are we missing?"
Alex, this question made me laugh when I read it this morning because I so vividly remember that burning question. It would not leave me alone, day and night, awake, asleep, in meetings,talking, dreaming. It seemed to be the blood in my veins. What's funny is that we were never missing anything. We had too much! My cup was too full.
Thank you for bringing that moment back to me this morning.

Replied by cmarti on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
""what are we missing?"
Alex, this question made me laugh when I read it this morning because I so vividly remember that burning question. It would not leave me alone, day and night, awake, asleep, in meetings,talking, dreaming. It seemed to be the blood in my veins. What's funny is that we were never missing anything. We had too much! My cup was too full.
Thank you for bringing that moment back to me this morning.
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #57709
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
My interest in jhanas has resumed today. It's interesting to me how I seem to go through a somewhat predictable practice cycles. I'm drawn to samatha/jhana practice, and then to noting/vipassana practice, and then to non-meditation/surrender practice.
When practicing jhana, I am always amazed at how my experience unfolds almost exactly as expounded in the old Theravada commentaries. These practices are not just the stuff of myth or legend. They produce results. I love this, because it means that I don't have to just take some old prophet's word for it. I can put this stuff to the test, and verify it directly within my own experience. How refreshing!
Practice well, everyone!
~Jackson
When practicing jhana, I am always amazed at how my experience unfolds almost exactly as expounded in the old Theravada commentaries. These practices are not just the stuff of myth or legend. They produce results. I love this, because it means that I don't have to just take some old prophet's word for it. I can put this stuff to the test, and verify it directly within my own experience. How refreshing!
Practice well, everyone!
~Jackson
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #57710
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)
I'm going to bring part two of this practice journal to a close. But first, a reminder...
Your own basic, uncontrived nature is primordially endowed with the perfect wisdom of the limitless dharma. This is difficult to see at first, because we've been locked up in our conditioned body and mind for so long, due to confusion. When we practice, we do not gain new insights. It would be more accurate to say that insight is uncovered and/or discovered. It's already there. You just need to allow it to shine through. All insight practice is a means to this end.
Practice well,
~Jackson
Your own basic, uncontrived nature is primordially endowed with the perfect wisdom of the limitless dharma. This is difficult to see at first, because we've been locked up in our conditioned body and mind for so long, due to confusion. When we practice, we do not gain new insights. It would be more accurate to say that insight is uncovered and/or discovered. It's already there. You just need to allow it to shine through. All insight practice is a means to this end.
Practice well,
~Jackson
