There is no spoon

A 50m session started with an extremely fast transition to access concentration: after 10 breaths my perception zoomed in and I got a strong ballooning feeling in my head. Rapture waves followed several minutes after that. Throughout the sit, I felt myself be very present however, interestingly, when I did not dismiss a thought promptly and actually got caught, even for a breath, when I returned I would almost always experience a rapture wave. Reward or punishment? Frankly, the rapture waves are getting very tiresome, esp. when they persist throughout the majority of the sit.

I did get the sense of moving onward to more peaceful sitting numerous times, with similar hypersensitivity that I reported before. Lightness of arms, the "sound of silence" -- the latter seems to be particularly powerful in getting my concentration focused, if I tune to just that and the breath. Pressure in my head (front and top). Tautness in my body. This all did not peak in the stretched-out experience from the night before.

I caught myself wanting that a couple of times, trying to stick-handle the experience so, however weakly, I tried to just let go and accept whatever presented itself.

Hi Tomo,

Raptures (relatively gross pleasant sensations of rising energy and champagne bubbles under the skin) happen in the 1st and 2nd jhanas and disappear in the 3rd and subsequent jhanas. The cicada sound is also 1st (harsh cicadas) or 2nd jhana (pleasant cicadas). The "the sense of moving onward to more peaceful sitting" sounds like you may be getting into 3rd jhana, but not if there are still cicada sounds. Don't manipulate your experience hoping for a "better" one! Whatever is happening for you in this moment is the right experience for you to be having. No exceptions to that rule. Your practice is excellent, deepening daily and developing just as it should. Cultivate patience and equanimity and let nature do its job.

Mudita,

Kenneth

"Raptures (relatively gross pleasant sensations of rising energy and champagne bubbles under the skin) happen in the 1st and 2nd jhanas and disappear in the 3rd and subsequent jhanas. The cicada sound is also 1st (harsh cicadas) or 2nd jhana (pleasant cicadas). The "the sense of moving onward to more peaceful sitting" sounds like you may be getting into 3rd jhana, but not if there are still cicada sounds. Don't manipulate your experience hoping for a "better" one! Whatever is happening for you in this moment is the right experience for you to be having. No exceptions to that rule. Your practice is excellent, deepening daily and developing just as it should. Cultivate patience and equanimity and let nature do its job.
"

Thanks for the analysis, Kenneth. Can you offer any opinions on the "one-pointed" experience in post 42? And are you referring to samatha or vipassana jhanas, or is that distinction just an MCTB thing that you don't subscribe to?

-- tomo

Hi Tomo,

In my terminology, samatha and vipassana are two ways of accessing or looking at the same territory. The 20 strata of mind are the territory. You can look at each stratum through the samatha or vipassana lens. In fact, there is a continuum from more investiagation on the vipassana end of the spectrum to more resting or absorbing into the state on the samatha end. So there isn't really any such thing as a vipassana or samatha jhana in my system.

Post 42 sounds like 1st jhana to me. One-pointedness, as I think of the term, refers to a tight focus, which is characteristic of 1st jhana. 2nd jhana is more of a soaking-into the objects of awareness, and 3rd jhana is very diffuse, even donut-like, because you can see the edges of objects, but the centers disappear. 4th jhana is even more diffuse than third, with panoramic focus. There probably wouldn't be any cicada sounds in the 4th jhana. I experience 4th jhana as a stately flow of sensations through the body and mind. Objects come and go at their own leisurely pace, with no effort on my part to attend to them; they just present themselves for inspection, pose for a moment, then comfortably move on.

Kenneth

In addition to practicing, I have been turning Kenneth's last two posts around and around, trying to make sense of it in light of my experience. In all the reading I have done on jhanas prior to this, the progression up from 1 to 4 involved dropping certain "factors". Specifically, going from 1 to 2 involved the dropping of "sustained" and "applied" thought: effort, as I understand it to be commonly translated. Similarly, the transition from 2 to 3 involves the dropping of rapture, so that by 3 your are dwelling in bliss, equanimity, and one-pointedness. And in going to 4, you drop bliss and one-pointedness, and dwell in equanimity.

I bring this up not to be argumentative, but to try and understand, because it seems to me that post 42 was much more like J3 than J1 in these classical forms. Raptures are gone, and my one-pointedness is less about "focus" and more about "there ain't nothing disturbing what I am doing". I sense things around me, sounds in particular, but they don't faze me. I don't have the sense of being zoomed in -- my definition of tight focus, which I clearly get when I am in J1. And this state was totally effortless.

I cannot interpret the stretched out feeling, which makes me second guess myself. But I similarly cannot grok this "donut-like" characterization when I cannot really see anything. What does seeing "the edges of objects" mean when, generally, you have little visual experience?

My last couple of sits have been shorter, and thus have not gone as deep. But I have by trying to pay attention to this "dropping off", and I don't think I am off base. But I could just be scripting my experience with anxiety. Again.

EDIT: I find this reference particularly useful: www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/gunaratana/wheel351.html

Another 30m sit, this one with a pretty clear progression. Starting with breath counting, dropping to watching at the nostrils as I start to get the balloon-like feeling in my head. Shortly after, I start to get rapture waves, discontinuous and, over time, intense. I feel my "depth of field" is very narrow, close. An I am labouring a bit with the breath, very clearly concentrating to stay with it. Then a noticeable transition as the effort drops away. I am watching for that, so I see it very clearly. The raptures continue, less intense but now more or less continuous. But I feel relief at not having to work to stay with the breath, as it gets a regular, easy cadence. The continuous raptures build a bit, and I feel a tension developing in my shoulders and neck. This straining builds and then, head first, I feel as though I am being pulled through an orifice. The tension moves down my body, replaced by very distinct ease. Again, the transition is very marked and, like a switch being flipped, the ease is accompanied by no rapture at all. A couple of times a very small rapture starts, but I find if I focus on the "ease", it goes away. I continue to pay attention to the breath and sense of ease, and then I start to get the expansion feeling again. Starting in my head but quickly my entire torso feels like, with each breath, I am getting pumped full of air. There is also this wobbly, wavy sensation as each "injection of air" goes in.

I was watching for transitions, investigating when some felt really different, but I really don't believe I was scripting this.

The last week or so (with some admittedly spotty practice) has been about samatha. Since I seem to be getting some traction on the jhana front, I am trying to cultivate that, ingrain it, so that I can clearly see the factors and transitions between them and push onwards. My intent is to approach the 11th nana from a concentration standpoint, getting to J4 and then vipassana-ize that to move up the Path.

I know that jhanas are supposed to be easier after SE, but for me they seem to be presenting a clearer direction at the moment. We'll see how that goes.

Hey Tomo I have really enjoyed reading through this thread. Thanks for sharing your practice...

Clayton

"Hey Tomo I have really enjoyed reading through this thread. Thanks for sharing your practice...

Clayton "

Thanks, Clayton. As a friend recently said, "I look forward to reading your fruition post". Him and me both.

A frustrating bunch of days with relatively weak concentration, owing partly due to stresses with work, commitments at home, and a new outside interest. A few longer sits (45m) move in and around J1-2, while some shorter ones (20m) barely get off the ground.

For those actively following this thread, I apologize for the lack of postings recently. Not intentionally going dark, but the combination of the near loss of my dear dog, and a "vacation" with family that morphed into the very sudden and real loss of my wife's father a couple of days ago, has left my practice spotty to say the least. But with buckets of anicca and dukkha heaped all around me, there will be plenty of fodder for practice. Just a little later.

Oh man, Tomo, I am so, so sorry to hear that. My heart goes out to you and your family.

It's understandable that you have a gap in posting. Take your time... we'll be here as support and encouragement when you return to practice.
Be with your loved ones.
My most caring thoughts to you and your family,
- Tina

To say that these last couple of weeks have been a momentum-breaker is an understatement. But I am finding it interesting how I am able to move through this, while I see others mired in the "not fair, why me" kind of questions that (a) have no answer, and (b) keep the suffering fresh and raw. Yes, I am feeling a deep sense of loss, but am accepting the impermanence of the situation.

I have started sitting again, and am a little surprised by how grief is not intruding on things. I plan on meeting it head-on if it does, but the "opportunity" has not come up. Concentration is not great, fatigue is high, but I do look forward to the peace of quiet contemplation.

"To say that these last couple of weeks have been a momentum-breaker is an understatement. But I am finding it interesting how I am able to move through this, while I see others mired in the "not fair, why me" kind of questions that (a) have no answer, and (b) keep the suffering fresh and raw. Yes, I am feeling a deep sense of loss, but am accepting the impermanence of the situation."

Everything changes. Everything is impermanent. -- Your understanding of this allows for openness and clarity...


"I have started sitting again, and am a little surprised by how grief is not intruding on things. I plan on meeting it head-on if it does, but the "opportunity" has not come up. Concentration is not great, fatigue is high, but I do look forward to the peace of quiet contemplation."
Concentration will return as you get back into daily practice. Gentleness and no expectations are key ingredients to practice right now.

Best and caring thoughts,
- Tina

Back to meat-and-potatoes...

40m sit this morning trying to get my groove back. Initially found breath hard to latch on to, so I shifted my attention between that, my core pulse, and the "sound of silence" to spiral in my concentration. Latching onto something jgroove said, I tried noting "watch it think", "watch it...", because I really want to zero in on the "objectify and disembed" theme. Some strong body-wide raptures ("watch it shiver") not lasting too long as I note them. That, I think, is kind of new as I used to subconsciously welcome them, and maybe invited them to stay longer than is useful. Noted anxiety and tightness as I heard my dog making some sounds, worrying briefly that she was in distress until I processed the sounds and figured out what she was doing. Just realized now that I did not note the "relief" that had to have been there. Transitioned to a lighter, more bliss-like state where I remained until the bell rang.

According to my Dharma Doctor, at this stage of my practice "momentum is everything". And momentum is what don't have right now. I am only now getting some regularity back, and when I do sit I find concentration weak, and my ability to avoid getting sucked into long thought loops poor. And don't even get me started on jhanas.

The prescription: commit to 90m+ of sitting per day for the next couple of days. And come hell or high water, that is what I plan to do.

Useful for me, maybe useful for you:

In addition to regular sitting, it can be useful to sprinkle some Shinzen Young-style noting/labeling throughout your normal day. One notes (and maybe labels as well) some content of experience, then takes 3-5 seconds to just 'soak' or absorb awareness into the sensation. You can do this whenever you have a few seconds free, waiting on a line or switching between checking email and doing something else, or whatever. Doesn't require a big commitment of time or effort and is a nice refresher from the bustle of daily activity. It's a microscopic way to keep the thread of practice and concentration alive in daily life, to keep your dharma wheels greased and keep momentum going.

shinzen.org/Retreat Reading/How to Note and Label.pdf

edit: added link

"The prescription: commit to 90m+ of sitting per day for the next couple of days. And come hell or high water, that is what I plan to do."

Tomo, I admire your dedication!

When concentration is weak, and your mind becomes a big thought scramble, it seems like nothing is getting done. But I think that simply bringing attention to this is crucial to continuing to progress along the path. Trust in the idea that your efforts are not fruitless. The hours you spend in practice will not be, and never have been, in vain.

~Jackson

"Tomo, I admire your dedication!

When concentration is weak, and your mind becomes a big thought scramble, it seems like nothing is getting done. But I think that simply bringing attention to this is crucial to continuing to progress along the path. Trust in the idea that your efforts are not fruitless. The hours you spend in practice will not be, and never have been, in vain.

~Jackson"

Honestly, it is mostly you guys (and girls) that help keep me going. If it was not for the positive feedback and consistent experiences from advanced practitioners, I would have bailed on this ages ago for lack of personal results. Sticking with it has enabled me to see *some* of what is being talked about, and trust that there is fruit out there somewhere.

Besides, Mike seems to be sprinting ahead and I (since I still have an "I") can't let him get the prize first!

"Honestly, it is mostly you guys (and girls) that help keep me going. If it was not for the positive feedback and consistent experiences from advanced practitioners, I would have bailed on this ages ago for lack of personal results. Sticking with it has enabled me to see *some* of what is being talked about, and trust that there is fruit out there somewhere.

Besides, Mike seems to be sprinting ahead and I (since I still have an "I") can't let him get the prize first!"

I know what you mean. I probably would have bailed out early on as well. I guess now we know why so many practitioners either give up or adopt a watered down version of the dharma. It's all about honesty, openness, willingness to share, and integrity. We have that here in spades.

And there's nothing wrong with a little healthy competition!

~Jackson

Tomo, you're making a great case for this e-sangha. As Jackson so often proves, another practitioner to talk to can make all the difference.

"
Tomo, you're making a great case for this e-sangha. As Jackson so often proves, another practitioner to talk to can make all the difference.

"

It's not "virtual" its real!

Yes, it's real. And it's online. Therefore, it's e-sangha

"
Tomo, you're making a great case for this e-sangha. As Jackson so often proves, another practitioner to talk to can make all the difference.

"

I don't think a case needs to be made. It kind of speaks for itself. But one of the great aspects of us being connected via the tubes is that we are all of like minds. If you are "forced" to go to a local sangha just because it is local, you may be a square peg in a round hole. Or you may just fit in but not get anywhere. I am thinking of the second Adyashanti interview on BG, for example, where he talked about those guys who are just cruising along after 20, 30, or 40y of practice!

We are all drawn to this place via a strong dharmic voice (KF) and, luckily, are all willing to help each other move our personal markers forward. For the record, I still hate the interface. But then having a nice interface were we can have book clubs, and talk about our favourite movies is not rockin' my world. This is the Unix of sanghas, and I am glad for it.