Mike Monson's Practice Notes: Dos

Mike, this is probably the sort of thing you've read millions of times, but I found it to be a really good set of instructions. Hopefully it's helpful. Thanks for your awesome reports and great comments on the various threads.

www.leighb.com/jhana3.htm

"Mike, this is probably the sort of thing you've read millions of times, but I found it to be a really good set of instructions. Hopefully it's helpful. Thanks for your awesome reports and great comments on the various threads.

www.leighb.com/jhana3.htm "

thanks
you are right
read it a million times
I'll keep trying
it's really no big deal -- it's kind of a nice problem to have, you know?

Thanks Mumuwu, that link's very helpful.

And Mike, a nice problem to have? I totally feel you on that. : )

"Thanks Mumuwu, that link's very helpful.

And Mike, a nice problem to have? I totally feel you on that. : )"

Right, it's like a billionaire not being able to decide whether to vacation in Fiji or Tahiti.
Not really a problem if you pulled back with some perspective.

Hey Mike, I found out after SE that jhana can be very subtle, as if the "volume" of it is turned way down and you have to listen really hard to hear it. Still, once you find it, you can turn the volume up and really go with it. Just my observation, but I'm curious to see what happens.

A good way to think about this, maybe a good starting point, is to realize that A&P basically is second jhana. So all those lights, raptures, vibrations, exciting things - don't note and disembed, instead find one of the sensations that is stable and pleasing and focus attention on it. Really soak it up and watch it grow stronger as you give it more of "you." Viola! Instant second jhana (obviously, it is more complicated, but it is more fun to write this way).

Seconding Ron's comment, don't look for big things, look for subtle things. The jhanic pleasantness is, I find, generally in the head area but it's not going to clobber you over the head at first, if ever. It's quite possible you're getting there and just not noticing.

thank you thank you thank you
I just sat in my office for 40 mins.
first, since SE it feels like there is a "buddha' inside me sometimes compelling me, directing me, to do certain things with my attention and energy
I'm not saying there is actually a 'buddha inside me' but, I think there is a process going on that sometimes feels like it has a mind of its own.
And, I think it is best to go with whatver my buddha wants me to do at those times when i sense a strong pull in some direction
anyway, it felt just now like it was trying to show me how to do jhanas. I started off trying to note rising, falling, stopping, etc while noticing sensations but I kept getting compelled to just kind of .... STOP and keep my attention placed in one spot that had a kind of rythym of joy in it's background (best I can do at a description) if I obeyed I'd get raptures and a gentle surge of energy up the spine and to the crown. it felt like frutions mixed in with something else.
(I made very little sense here, but anyway, it was fun, i liked it)

Rising (vibe in lower ab, shooting image of self with eyes closed, vibes along outside of upper ab); quick stop (expanding feeling of vibes and warmth through out ab, image of the inside of my face looking out), falling (release feeling in ab, energy surge in back of scalp, eyes creeping up in head, emptyish feeling in abs); stoppng (gentle energy surging up up up to crown, tension in chest, tension in chest) just before rising -- image of shirt over ab rising, slight release of tension in chest -- rising (vibes everywhere, strong tension in chest).
this went on and on and effort was made to stick with the rising and falling and stopping and noticing and not turn to reflecting, analyzing -- the success of this varied.
things slowed and slowed and slowed and the details noticed increased.
still, tension grew and expanded.
"disembed" occured to me and I saw that while I was noticing I wasn't disembedding from the objects, I was identifying with them, and, subtly looking for something for myself from them.
this produced immediate and constant disembedding which then brought on fruition after fruition from which I disembeded bringing up more biss and fruitions and bliss and fruitions
at times it felt like energy was getting sucked up straight from my anus (sorry) to my crown and at times my crown and my lower spine vibrated in unison.
despite this firework like description it was no big deal -- just happy nothing.

went to borders with my dad (visiting this weekend from Louisiana). read dharma magazines. I went to the fancy calendar section and saw all kinds of glossy calendars related to dharma stuff: dali lama, suzuki roshi, etc. all gorgeous and sacred and buddhisty looking. was struck by the fact that we all know what images go with "buddhism" -- starkness, nature, a lot of black and white, single flowers, you know.
wow -- what total BS that is, huh? a glossy calendar showing
cont

mine and a lot of your dharma would be pictures of fast food meals, lots of sexual images some not too wholesome maybe, cars -- lots of cars -- children, diapers, people screaming, television screens showing people drinking, fighting, competing, hurting each other, tears, burning ears, fake laughter, images of embarassment and humiliation, computer screens, emails, workplaces, toilets, hugs, confused faces and on and on.
sometimes some of us when we get interested in dharma stuff we are attracted to he BS images and maybe think that being buddhist will make our lives look like those images and when they don't it can be VERY disapointing.
but a good disapointment

Mike Monson nails it again. Right through the heart.

Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu Mike... the glamorous projections are just a tool we use to try to numb out the actual reality of daily life... its gotta be here, its gotta be now...

Nice new profile pic. Lovin the shades Mike!

Because of my father's visit my weekend wasn't the usual 5 to 6 sits per day extravaganza I've had the last several months so just now I had my first very brief sit since the one I recently reported.
It was unusual in the sense that I feel very ... "ripe" for want of a better term. Again, all I had to do was think the word "disembed" to be transported immediatey to a very empty and nice place. And, I think, for the first, time, I may have an idea of how to get into the first concentration jhana (thanks in great part to some tips from Kenneth).
I wish I didn't have to work so I could sit and sit and sit and explore all this, but, all in good time, right?

I think that a full on urgent resolve to get stream entry that includes as many sits as possible in which one actually does the practice rather than think or reflect and maintains momentum between sits by staying aware of sensations and other objects of experience as much as possible and in which one really believes it can be done and refuses to be discouraged and avoids indulging in intellectual masturbation about what it all means and related crap ..... is worth it.

Edit: I even at least temporarily stopped drinking beer and wine and whisky and tequila and vodka and rum (and I love all those beverages) about three months ago because I knew that doing so was cutting off my momentum. I have nothing against drinking alcohol and probably will again at some point (maybe today).

"I even at least temporarily stopped drinking beer and wine and whisky and tequila and vodka and rum (and I love all those beverages) about three months ago because I knew that doing so was cutting off my momentum. "

As someone who also enjoys those beverages, I was wondering if you could speak a little bit more on how you saw them effecting your momentum. Just hoping you might expand on that sentence a little more.

"As someone who also enjoys those beverages, I was wondering if you could speak a little bit more on how you saw them effecting your momentum. "

Well, you know it could be just me.
But, let's say you've sat twice in a day and got some momentum from the sits and, in between the sits you've kept that mometum up by paying careful attention to what is going on in your experience (sensations, thoughts, feeling tone, mind states) it is now 6 o'clock. There are two things that could now happen:
1. You keep the momentum going as you relax into your evening before sleep. Your awareness grows, your mindfulness grows. You may grab some more sitting time. You lay down to bed still with momentum, as you relax you might do some more intense vipassana before sleeping. You wake up the next morning with momentum still at the higher level from the day before and that days sits and in between mindfulness you keep it going and increase it.
or,

2. You drink one or two or more drinks. the sensitivity needed to maintain mindfulness fades and keeps fading. You go to bed with the momentum pretty much gone. Have to start over again the next day. Drag.

It's pretty obvious isn't it? I mean, I don't think all those people who are getting SE at intensive retreats are doing much drinking, do you? They aren't swearing off alcohol forever, but for a period when they want to build momentum and get SE they forego it for a while.
Right?
For me, this was very real and I needed to do it to push through. My idea was to make my LIFE a retreat until I got SE and to be, frankly, ruthless about it. Why not? like I said, it was worth it.
.
So I guess what I am saying is that the beer and whisky decreases the sensitivity to detail needed for minfulness.

But, I imagine there are yogi's who have gotten SE off retreat who drank everyday leading up to their path moment

Mike makes a good point. Do whatever it takes to get SE. I repeat... Do whatever it takes to get Stream entry!! That is of course if your a chronic yogi... if you haven't had an A&P or been infected with insight disease I say run for the hills before one or both happens... : )

"2. You drink one or two or more drinks. the sensitivity needed to maintain mindfulness fades and keeps fading. You go to bed with the momentum pretty much gone. Have to start over again the next day. Drag
"

Hey Mike,

One or two more, after how many?

"Hey Mike,

One or two more, after how many?

"

huh?
I said "one or two or more" -- right?

meaning one or two or three or four or ......

"I think that a full on urgent resolve to get stream entry that includes as many sits as possible in which one actually does the practice rather than think or reflect and maintains momentum between sits by staying aware of sensations and other objects of experience as much as possible and in which one really believes it can be done and refuses to be discouraged and avoids indulging in intellectual masturbation about what it all means and related crap ..... is worth it."

Whew, I need to hear that at least every 2 or 3 days. Thanks again.

40 minute sit in my office just now.
Rising .... falling .... stopping .... Rising .... STOP .... falling .... stopping.
Peripheral bliss off and on. At times felt completely weightless. Lots of tension in chest and face. Noticed the insatiable desire to reflect on and analyze each rise and each fall of my abdomen and everything that happened during and in between. Felt sensations of "me me me." Desire and pain everywhere. Noted dukkha ... dukkha which evolved into fruition and bliss. Had random thought "disembedding is a third gear practice."
Back to work with joy, emptiness and no friction (for now!)

"So I guess what I am saying is that the beer and whisky decreases the sensitivity to detail needed for minfulness.

But, I imagine there are yogi's who have gotten SE off retreat who drank everyday leading up to their path moment"

Thanks Mike, that does help clear things up for me. I am starting a month with no drinking, both as a way to detox and to increase my momentum for practice. Your clarification is helpful for me in this regard. Whether I've hit stream entry or no, I am definitely not one of those yogis who can drink everyday!

"Thanks Mike, that does help clear things up for me. I am starting a month with no drinking, both as a way to detox and to increase my momentum for practice. Your clarification is helpful for me in this regard. Whether I've hit stream entry or no, I am definitely not one of those yogis who can drink everyday! "

Cool.
My desire to drink alcohol or indulge in any kind of drug has been absent for a couple of months now. For two reasons I think: I'm still into "momentum" and fascinated by what happens to me 24 x 7 because of practice and because I want to know whether what I am experiencing is because of practice and/or normal life stuff as opposed to drugs or alcohol. Hope that makes sense. I imagine this may fade in time after the newness of SE and path wears off but who knows?
edit: plus I really am different for right now than before -- my entire vibe is just not the same.
But, I will be in Las Vegas on vacation with my wife later this week and it is very hard to imagine not drinking while there. I'm curious to see what I do, but I'm pretty sure I'll have a cocktail or two (or more) while gambling.

"I want to know whether what I am experiencing is because of practice and/or normal life stuff as opposed to drugs or alcohol. "

Makes perfect sense. I'm feeling the same way.

As for Vegas, well, it wouldn't be Vegas without a few cocktails, but I imagine you'll know what you want to do when you get there. : )

Have a fun time Mike, whatever you choose!

The alcohol question is an interesting one, particularly since this site is all about full disclosure and open discussion of taboo subjects.
As conveyed in contemporary Western vipassana, the idea is that yogis are not supposed to drink alcohol or use other substances in any amount that might cause them to become heedless and do things that are karmically damaging and could cause them to feel huge amounts of remorse. (OK. Got it. Been there. Done that.) This is expressed very tepidly in some vipassana communities: "Do your best not to use substances in ways that might cause you to be heedless." But I believe it tends to be vehemently expressed in Asia as a one-or-zero thing: "Don't even touch alcohol or weed or any drug. This is a violation of the precepts." (Certain Rasta-like Indian sadhus excepted!)

But what about the physio-energetic aspect? I've never heard this addressed directly. When I came back from a week in Vegas this spring, I felt like I was basically starting over with the practice, that I'd been sent back to square one. I went through a couple of weeks in which the practice was torture and I couldn't concentrate. What I don't know, though, is whether drinking and lack of practice had anything at all to do with this. I suspect it did.
I also suspect that drinking and such are considered a bigger deal in living Buddhist schools where physio-energetic development is validated and encouraged, and that it is the setbacks these behaviors lead to, rather than moral outrage, that is behind the prohibition. (No pun intended.)