Mike Monson's Practice Notes: Dos

Totally, it's my main objective every day (often total FAIL, but some days...)

"Totally, it's my main objective every day (often total FAIL, but some days...)"

I could by WAY off base here, but to me the ideal disembed is to look at an object and do nothing about it and to see your attitude about the object and do nothing ABOUT that.
EVERYTIME that happens sitting or not (it feels more right to say everytime it happens rather than every time I do it) everything lightens up, energy frees up, things look brand new, and, very very often, what seemed to be a problem no longer is.

I think I am pretty ignorant, naive about buddhism and spiritual philosophies in general. Okay, very ignorant. And, possibly, when I talk about things I am doing, it sounds like I am trying to say what I think is right or wrong. but I hope I'm not. I think I'm just stumbling around in the dark looking for a way to not get hurt.
And, I don't want ANYONE to get hurt. Ever. But I have very little control over that -- ultimately I guess.

Mike, sounds right to me.

"What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it?"

Take Ramana for example.

"Unless one is happy, one cannot bestow happiness on others."
"Happiness is born of Peace, and can reign only when there is no disturbance. Disturbance is due to thoughts, which arise in the mind. When the mind is absent, there will be perfect peace."

And what is the mind?

"The mind is nothing but the thought I"
"Thoughts arise because of the thinker"
"The thinker is the ego, which if sought will automatically vanish."

"Mike, sounds right to me.

"What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it?"

Take Ramana for example.

"Unless one is happy, one cannot bestow happiness on others."
"Happiness is born of Peace, and can reign only when there is no disturbance. Disturbance is due to thoughts, which arise in the mind. When the mind is absent, there will be perfect peace."

And what is the mind?

"The mind is nothing but the thought I"
"Thoughts arise because of the thinker"
"The thinker is the ego, which if sought will automatically vanish."
"

I don't know. Are all sensations neutral until we think about them? I don't think so but I bet a lot of people do. I'm open.

"I don't know. Are all sensations neutral until we think about them? I don't think so but I bet a lot of people do. I'm open."

Related to this, is the question of what is a "mind state"? Mind states are a part of noting practice I struggle with. The manner in which I have resolved it so far is to consider the way thoughts reverberate. This is as good as I can get based on the mind state descriptions. It would be interesting if there are others that have or had the same problem.

Mike, it isn't that they are neutral. But is a pain a problem or is it just pain until you think about it? Or say the moment you wake up, prior to any thoughts, you don't even know who you are (then, I comes, then I just woke up, the I just woke up in my room and have to go to work, work sucks I have so much crap to do today, etc.).


The Great Way is not difficult
if you don't make distinctions.
Only throw away likes and dislikes
and everything will be perfectly clear.

So throw away all opinions, all likes and dislikes, and only keep the mind that doesn't know. This is very important. Don't know mind is the mind that cuts off all thinking. When all thinking has been cut off, you become empty mind. This is before thinking. Your before thinking mind, my before thinking mind, all people's before thinking minds are the same. This is your substance. Your substance, my substance, and the substance of the whole universe become one. So the tree, the mountain, the cloud and you become one. Then I ask you: Are the mountain and you the same or different? If you say "the same," I will hit you thirty times. If you say "different," I will still hit you thirty times. Why?
-Zen Master Seung Sahn

What do you mean by mind state? Dullness, agitation, etc? or do you mean verbal thinking?

"What do you mean by mind state? Dullness, agitation, etc? or do you mean verbal thinking?"

Here are some taken from the home page.

"Objectify mind states. Investigation, curiosity, happiness, anxiety, amusement, sadness, joy, anger, frustration, annoyance, irritation, aversion, desire, disgust, fear, worry, calm, embarrassment, shame, self-pity, compassion, love, contentment, aversion, dullness, sleepiness, bliss, exhilaration, triumph, self-loathing. "

It's the overall tone of mind (sleepy, annoyed, agitated, distracted, happy, disgusted, etc.).

I also have trouble on this level if I go looking for something. If there's nothing to note, then it's noted as neutral and then on to the next thing that is actually happening. Often times, I guess, there a physical sensations being noted such as tingling and things like that, but at the same time on some level I know they are related to anxiety. I think noting the anxiety in some cases breaks the identification with it and then it seems to be more so just physical sensations to be noted.

P.S.
Mike, sorry to derail your practice notes like this...

"whatever is happening"
whatever is happening right now is disgust. It's overwhelming. I've never felt it so distinctly and strongly before. Its lasted about three hours now.

""whatever is happening"
whatever is happening right now is disgust. It's overwhelming. I've never felt it so distinctly and strongly before. Its lasted about three hours now."

What a fantastic opportunity! [reference KF on 'birdwatching'] A whole flock of Disgust roosting in your neighborhood!

"What a fantastic opportunity! [reference KF on 'birdwatching'] A whole flock of Disgust roosting in your neighborhood!"

they flew away

"they flew away"

Dang! That's what makes birdwatching so challenging!

" "What a fantastic opportunity! [reference KF on 'birdwatching'] A whole flock of Disgust roosting in your neighborhood!"

they flew away"

This makes me laugh, in a really healthy feeling way.

Thanks Mike (and Roomy).

The stuff that distracts us from noting the objects of our experience immediately become objects to note.

i really think that disembeding is not just a first gear practice
it is also a third gear practice

more

for me, at least, there is a way to disembed from objects of experience that instantly (and temporarily of course) sends me to a place of utter emptiness, ease, surrender. and, sometimes, there is even clarity and complete peace.

this is beautiful Mike-
to me, it feels like 1st gear relaxes a tendency to clench at passing experiences, and when engaged correctly gives rise to a state of disembeding or pure awareness, clear seeing, in which it is seen clearly and directly that anything seen is not-self. It is quite natural for me once disembedded to relax a subtler aversive tendency of withdrawing from passing experiences, and allow disembedded awareness to dissolve or relax into the simplicity of each passing experience. I wonder if this is similar to what you describe?

50 minute sit.
rising falling stopping.
i seem to have settled into a technique for now. I note the rising, falling, stopping and during each phase notice in as much detail the sensations as they arise, attitudes (which are just sensations) thoughts, etc. I disembed.
The goal is to miss as little as possible and disembed from as much as possible.
That's it. I guess I talk about that a lot but the point I'm making is that it seems to be the technique I've chosen for right now.
I'm also temporarily feeling less interested in maps and stages. I just want to sit as much as possible and jump into LIFE as completely as possible, while, again, missing as little as possible and disembeding as continuously as possible.
Doing these things, I feel, will keep the progress of insight I've started go at its natural pace so there is no need to stop and try to figure things out. (this is an advantage I think, of stream entry)
Everything I just wrote makes it sound more complicated than it is
anyway, back to the sit.
slowly settled and got into a rythym with the breath. at times felt like concentration jhanas were entered briefly. at times pressure would build up from my butt and surge up up up and my head would feel inflated. But the pressure doesn't go anywhere and dissipates. this happens again and again in no real pattern. It's kind of unsatisfying but really no big deal. It seems right.
there are also moments of just nothing in which I am compelled to stop everything -- the noting, the noticing, the constant disembedding (though I think that this IS a form of disembedding) and all parts of me and existence just seem completely in synch.
I don't think there were any fruitions this sit though I did have that sudden jerk awake feeling a couple of times even though I never dozed off or felt sleepy.
I feel content

"
anyway, back to the sit.
slowly settled and got into a rythym with the breath. at times felt like concentration jhanas were entered briefly. at times pressure would build up from my butt and surge up up up and my head would feel inflated. But the pressure doesn't go anywhere and dissipates. this happens again and again in no real pattern. It's kind of unsatisfying but really no big deal. It seems right.
there are also moments of just nothing in which I am compelled to stop everything -- the noting, the noticing, the constant disembedding (though I think that this IS a form of disembedding) and all parts of me and existence just seem completely in synch.
I don't think there were any fruitions this sit though I did have that sudden jerk awake feeling a couple of times even though I never dozed off or felt sleepy.
I feel content "

to be clear, as a papa bear, a large part of the reason I feel content is that both my kids are presently safe, healthy and happy. And, my job feels secure today.
if those things change, more and more I apply practice to the feelings that come up and I use practice to help me make the right decisions.
however, for now the truth is i'm not content if my cubs are in danger.
now, not that long ago there was no way I'd feel content like this whether my kids were okay or not
more :
I also think that now I know more and more when my job or my family are REALLY in some sort of need that demands my attention and when it is just my imagination.
this will continue to improve I'm thinking

"... for now the truth is i'm not content if my cubs are in danger."

That hasn't changed for me , Mike. But discontent is not an attribute of awakening/non-awakening. It's an attribute of experience. How you relate to discontent, how you deal with it, reactive or non-reactive, skillful or unskillful, now THAT'S an attribute of awakening.

"
"... for now the truth is i'm not content if my cubs are in danger."

That hasn't changed for me , Mike. But discontent is not an attribute of awakening/non-awakening. It's an attribute of experience. How you relate to discontent, how you deal with it, reactive or non-reactive, skillful or unskillful, now THAT'S an attribute of awakening.

"

for now the truth is also that I really like feeling contentment
and when I feel it my practice is to open my self wide enough to be ready for anything else to occur at a moment's notice

interesting that "content" and the root of "contentment" is the same word as content, or what is contained inside something, it's "content"

I'm not trying to let go of any specific things, such as facebook, twitter (don't have it), tennis, or food, or sex, or clothes, or books, or TV or on and on and on. Stuff like that will all come and go and be interesting or necessary or not depending on all kinds of different things. None of them is better or worse than any other for any reason at all.
why let go of anything on purpose? things will fade away soon enough if looked at just right (disembedding)

I listened to a dharma talk by Vince H. from Buddhist Geeks the other day, where he talked about what he learned about Vedanta in college. His professor said that there are two main paths in Vedanta: the Tantric path and the Advaita path. What's the difference?

The Advaita path is, "Not this, not that" (neti, neti).

The Tantric path is, "This too, this too."

What you're describing sounds more like a, "this too," approach. I'm usually inclined that way as well. I dig it.

"I listened to a dharma talk by Vince H. from Buddhist Geeks the other day, where he talked about what he learned about Vedanta in college. His professor said that there are two main paths in Vedanta: the Tantric path and the Advaita path. What's the difference?

The Advaita path is, "Not this, not that" (neti, neti).

The Tantric path is, "This too, this too."

What you're describing sounds more like a, "this too," approach. I'm usually inclined that way as well. I dig it."

Interesting.
I think it's neither one though. It's counting on the natural process that comes from mindfullness ("mindfullness" being a shorhand for the act of continuously noting and disembedding) in which all things become equally worthless and equally worthwhile because they are all equally not me.
i guess
maybe
that seems to match my experience right now anyway

I think I cycle through fear and disgust and misery while thinking about and writing these posts and sometimes I become miserable because I'm afraid that what I've written is disgusting.
maybe

Mike, I love your posts and often they resonate for me too. I've had that horrid feeling during and after writing posts myself - the vulnerability factor, the 'what will people think' factor, the 'am I losing my marbles' factor....maybe? But the great thing about this forum is people being honest and open about our experiences in a way that relates to our mediation practice. It's gold dust...the whole shebang.