Questions

@sunyata

Do you want to practice vipassana? If you do you should read the instructions from Kenneth Folk or Ingram, or Mahasi Sayadaw or the scores of other sources. Then, if you really want to give it a try, pick a practice and then start doing it. Consistently. Once or twice a day. When not sitting, try to find some kind of awareness practice to do while walking, talking, working, drviing, etc. to keep the momentum and continuity going. Relax and keep steady at this. Day after day after day. Just do it because no matter what you will gain more intimacy with yourself and the world. But it has to be consistent, steady, and as relaxed and open as possible (but don't make that a requirement cause then it's just a trap that makes one unrelaxed know what I mean?).

An attitude to take that really works for me is this -- that it doesn't matter WHAT you do, how you FEEL, what you THINK, what you UNDERSTAND. All that matters is that you pay close attention to what is actually happening. that is it. That is the only requirement -- to see what you are doing, feeling, thinking in an objective, open, disembedded way. I find that if I do this everything just takes care of itself and I'll often (not always of course) just know what to do or how to behave in a natural way.

In a way, I wonder if you are actually lucky to have social anxiety. That may sound strange, but, since it is such a "self" central affliction and filled with so much suffering, if you could develop the ability to really stay with the thoughts and feelings in social settings and no matter what just let all the feelings and thoughts arise (even or especially the feelings or thoughts that make you want to block the feelings and thoughts) and start to see the beginnings and the endings -- that could be territory for some real freeing insight.

And, of course, it it got too uncomfortable you could just stop the practice. But, you are going to have the anxiety anyway, it would be nice to be able to take advantage of it somehow.

And please understand that this is something I've done over and over for the same affliction. Like I said I have a similar but slighty different version of it. The results for me have been this, I think:

1. An ability to see in an almost humorous way how serious I am being about my "self" which brings an immediate relaxation.

2. A certain peace with the idea that I can't control how I act and feel around people and how they will act toward me or think about me. If I am weird, so be it, I'm weird.

3. more and more instances of social encounters in which there is no trouble or anxiety and in which I just feel fine, accepted, and like I belong.

There is way more to this story, of course.

PS - above is terribly simplistic answer, but there is more info such as:
Some basics I wrote: [url]
Wikipedia: [url]
Wikipedia: [url]

-ona

Interesting that I had a dream last night in which I was at a yard sale at a house in Seattle with my nephew and his family and I ran into Ona. We somehow figured out who each other were and had a nice talk.

To work with it seems, at least for now, way too complicated. And, my gut tells me, perhaps incorrecty, that it is kind of a side show, a veering off of time and energy of just developing deeper and deeper awakening. I mean, it is separate from awakening in a way, right? Cool, useful, healing -- but an optional for those who are interested. Does that seem right? Again, I'm open and hope what I said doesn't sound negative because I do think it seems pretty cool.



-michaelmonson

It isn't particularly interesting to some people, and that's fine. It's not "separate" from awakening, because for whatever reasons it seems to be very intertwined with awakening. That is, the kinds of "kriyas" or spasms/raptures/agonies/tremors/movements of the Holy Spirit/whatever word that you describe are - metaphysically - a kind of purification process, and meditation alone (as you see) triggers them.

The energy creates spasms and such like that when it hits tensions/impurities/deeply buried subconscious material/emotional blocks, etc. (again, this is drawing on various traditions' interpretations). From this perspective, awakening is seen as a gradual process of purification of the body and mind. God keeps putting the iron into the fire to work on the project until there is no resistance left, said another way. When there is no resistance left (resistance in the outer sense being the hindrances and delusions that prevent the full experiential recognition of awakening, the overt bodily energetic effects generally subside.

So one can quite successfully pay it no mind at all - there's really no particular need to play with it - it will do its thing by itself. But working with it (by learning kundalini type yogas, qi gong, or other methods) lets one take advantage of it for healing, smoothing out the rough stuff, making the release of difficult things more conscious and deliberate, as part of a sort of introspective understanding of ones own weaknesses, gaining insight and wisdom, and so on. My own opinion is that doing this kind of work in addition to meditation *can* (but doesn't necessarily) speed the cultivation that sets up the right conditions for the grace of awakening.

But I say "not necessarily" because it is quite common for people to get into it out of a fascination with feeling good, and just spend all their energy trying to generate the feel good all the time; and it's also possible for people to get into it just for practical purposes, like becoming a healer, and that's fine but isn't necessarily going to cultivate any kind of ground for awakening either.

The question to ask if you want to do energy work is "what do I want to get out of this". If you just want to experiment and play around for fun, I think fun is a great thing and you can dabble in all sorts of things. Feeling good is a nice thing. God gave us enjoyable things to enjoy, and they aren't all evil.

If you want to be able to do some kind of specific health or healing stuff, do something like qi-gong or a derived practice. Those things tend to be a bit complex, so perhaps best to start with the dabbling and see what interests you.

Full disclosure for me is that when this stuff started happening I dabbled quite a bit, finding it quite fascinating, but never really got into any kind of system for using it (if I had to pick I'd probably do a version of qi gong), and after a long while it just didn't seem very important anymore. I tend to see the kinds of energy experiences that do still arise as signs and pointers, just like if I bleed I know I've cut myself. I tend to get a lot of bliss and tremors in the presence of certain people I'm close to. Certain spirits trigger specific energetic phenomena, which is part of how I identify them. Certain kinds of energy seem to help shake out physical tension, and I use visualizations of gentle loving light to heal mild illness or injuries (muscle strains, colds, etc.).

Follow your gut.

ETA: Sunyata may have some useful specifics to add, since he seems familiar with some more formal systems.

"I would suggest you worry less about whether your thoughts change. Work with them the say way you work with your emotions, and you should continue to see improvement!"

I have noticed that once the emotional charge is taken out of a thought using EFT that the thought itself--which is usually distorted in some way--is often automatically replaced by a thought that is rooted in a healthier intepretation of experience. I'm not quite sure how the fellow who created the program I am doing will handle the thoughts themselves, since I haven't got that far yet. I think he may suggest to intentionally reform thoughts, as you stated is a common practice that may not promote permanent change. Taking the emotional energy out of thoughts does allow me to reevaluate their helpfulness or veracity more rationally though. And like you said, in this process, I can more easily just see them as thoughts, when they're not as tied to emotion. I have noticed that.

Thanks Mike for the practice recommendation. Right now I don't think I want to deviate from the type of practice I am doing. It's taken me 10 years or so to even start to trust it a little bit.

I have tried to develop intentional awareness techniques that I can practice throughout the day, but I find it overheats my head and imbalances my energy. So I tend to go through the day and I get little insights here and there and that's how I have developed. The awareness of my worrying developed this way. It seems like a natural progression. For me at least, if I try anything more than this, it's trying too hard, and my GI system makes sure to tell me so.

I love the three results you enumerated. The first one especially resonates with me and I think is a personality trait of mine. I have the tendency to differentiate myself in an attempt to form my identity. I need to have some feeling of personal significance. So I can identify with what you are saying there.

Ona, I don't really have much more to add, at least from my own experience. You seem to have had a breadth of experience with energy movements and manifestations during practice. Much of what I know is taught in kundalini yoga--the chakras and all that--as well as a little dabbling in energy healing. Up to this point, my sitting has been pretty quiet, however I expect that as I proceed I will experience similar energetic phenomena to everyone else.

"I have noticed that once the emotional charge is taken out of a thought using EFT that the thought itself--which is usually distorted in some way--is often automatically replaced by a thought that is rooted in a healthier intepretation of experience. [...] Taking the emotional energy out of thoughts does allow me to reevaluate their helpfulness or veracity more rationally though. And like you said, in this process, I can more easily just see them as thoughts, when they're not as tied to emotion. I have noticed that." -Jake2

It's great that you're noticing this. What you describe as taking away the emotional charge is sometimes described (colloquially) as "taking the curse off." It works with all kinds of private experience (thoughts, emotions, impulses). Allowing them to arise and pass without reacting not only allows us to experience their non-toxic nature, but also helps weaken the cause/effect context that has been regulating unhelpful behavioral patterns.

Sounds like you're doing some good work, Jake2. Keep it up, and keep sharing.

I'm going through a phase in which I'm doing a lot of both samatha and vipassana. Both pretty straightforward -- just trying to strengthen my concentration with samatha and attempting to see if I can get to the jhanas with some ability over time; and doing a lot of vipassana on sensations of the breath with no real goal except to stay with what comes up.

Today at the Sacramento Airport while waiting to board (I'm always very early) I sat and did vipassana and today, for the first time in a while started getting a lot of jolts and jerks up the spine as well as lots of pleasureable sensations on the skin, scalp, crown. And, a very strong pulsing in the "third eye."

It doesn't feel like any "major shift" as mentioned by Chris above (at least not yet) but, what is happening feels a bit different than my early experiences with "energy."

There has been a lot of death and sickness and anger and resentment and stress and general craziness and bizarre behavior (the stress and some of the craziness is from my job working out of town on a big trial) in my life lately and it really seems like my practice is doing me a lot of good at coping with things with either equanimity most of the time or without totally "losing it" when things have gotten really intense.

It's interesting how we all phase in and out of practicing regularly, or vacillating between different techniques. Lately, I've been practicing a lot less; maybe four 15-20 sessions per week. I think it's because I'm seeing practice more as a way to help me live a life I value, rather than for the sake of transforming myself or my experience.

I've been asking myself, "What is this in the service of?" For example, if I'm practicing to eliminate suffering, what will this lack of suffering allow me to do? What is "suffering" blocking me from? If I can answer those questions, I can use my practice to move toward those valued ends even when some suffering remains. And really, that's forever. As long as there's life, there's pain. Since suffering is painful, it can be difficult to distinguish that which is unnecessary from that which is going to arise no matter what. So, waiting around for it to go away, before really living my life, is counter-productive.

So, I sit less, and I spend more time participating in my life outside of sitting; at least for now. The pendulum will swing the other way at some point, I imagine.

Are you meditating again? I thought you'd stopped, Mike.

-cmarti

I can't imagine ever stopping meditating. I've been doing it in varying degrees of intensity since high school.

But, I did take a break from having a real directed practice while I worked some things out.

I definitely get led in new directions all the time. Phases of being more focused on work project (writing, etc.) phases of working with or specific techniques or spirits, phases of sitting a certain way, phases of experimenting with new practices. I feel led through these changes, and they don't seem to be about "getting somewhere" but just doing what I'm led to do, and the leading feels meaningful, not random. My latest kick (over a couple months at least now) has been praying the rosary daily. After I learned the mechanics of it (as it was unfamiliar) it turned into a rather deep contemplative practice, and I now rarely finish the rosary in one sitting, resting instead in long silences as I go along. That feels right for now, and has led me to reading more old texts by Christian mystics, which are resonating quite a bit.

(I was expecting to be offline this week, but through the wonders of unexpectedly blazing fast 3G cell service, I have internetz!)

Not the first time I've been seriously impressed with cell service in the middle of podunk so podunky the electricity is unreliable.

To say more than that leads to a rant about international attitudes about poverty and progress, assumptions about what is good for other countries, and the rich constantly wanting to make decisions for the poor "for their own good" (both internally and internationally), etc, etc, so I'll just drop it.