Falling from Equanimity to Reobservation

Hi everyone,

Does anyone have any tales, quips or tips about to share about falling from equanimity back to reobservation? Thanks in advance!

Eric

Hi Eric,

If you are noting everything on and off the cushion as often as possible, then you are doing everything right. Noting aloud and noting duplets and triplets will boost up your mindfulness considerably. Is there possible one of the four foundations of mindfulness that you have most problems with? Try noting that more than others.

If you note triplets (body sensations, feeling tones, mind states or thoughts), you cannot avoid being present in the moment. It takes some time and effort to build up triplet noting practise and is frustrating at first, but it is well worth the effort.

Sometimes, despite our best efforts, the progress does not seem to be linear and you can find yourself spiralling back to old territory. Keep your momentum strong and note what feelings this brings up.

Disappointment? I accept.
Lack of motivation? I accept.
Irritation, fear of backsliding, fear of deluding myself? I accept it all.

Negative emotions are great for doing mindfulness practise off the cushion. Watching sensations that for example feeling insecure causes in your body can be very interesting and educational. There can be so many things happening in your body: tension, pressure, constriction of the throat, burning feeling in the chest. If you really start paying attention to those sensations, you may even forget to suffer

You can imagine collecting negative mind states like someone would collect rare stamps or butterflies. Did you note sadness today? Have you already found resentment, envy and despair?

Keeps the momentum going! In my opinion that is all there is to it.

Antero.

Blecch- I just got past about 5 months of getting to Eq and repeatedly drifting back into RO- long enough to almost become convinced that I had reached the end of the trail and that this grinding feeling was just going to keep coming back forever.

I don't even know if this is technically correct, but I found it kind of comforting to view Reobservation and Equanimity as just two facets of the same thing- a wide perspective with suffering, and a wide perspective without suffering. There was just a gentle drift from one to the other - I'd feel, "I'm in equanimity, how nice!" ... "I'm in equanimity, how nice!" ... "I'm in equanimity, aren't I?" ... "I'm in equanimity, GODDAMMIT... oops."

There's no way to know what "caused" me to pick up and move on, but I found that "Ships in the Harbour" mahamudra allowed me to bypass a lot of my doubt and frustration, and stay with the work.

Oh, and another thing...

I never really "stabilized" in Equanimity before 2nd Path (assuming I really have it), the way I did before 1st Path. In fact, about three weeks ago, I thought I had, for a couple of days, but then I kinda dipped back into RO again. And I continued to do so, more or less right up to 2nd Path. In fact, things got fairly turbulent and quite unpleasant in the last day or so prior.

A couple of months ago, Kenneth told me that he never really had a stable Equanimity prior to 2nd Path. That was heartening to hear at the time, and now in retrospect, I can second that experience. So... taking your "Equanimity" temperature doesn't seem to get you much, at least at that path.

I have a feeling that prior to First Path (im pre-path here), Nyanas are not something we can latch on-to.
So sometimes Equanimity arises, great. But its definitely not like 'I've got it, now its here forever'.
The process keeps going.. Just gotta keep sitting as much as you can, and off the cushion practice as well, to get the ball to keep moving and not get stuck.
If you know deep in your heart that you will not stop until every little bit of suffering is gone, a deep trust develops.. Nothing to worry about, just to keep going with the process.

Antero, this is some outstanding advice, in my opinion, for anyone at any stage.

Eric, I can't really add much to what's been said already. It sucks when it happens, but you just roll with it and keep practicing as that momentum will carry you through more than sitting trying to figure it out will.

Good luck!

Hello Eric-
Thanks for bringing up a good topic- it's something I've been reflecting on a lot recently, as a pre-path practitioner. All the comments here so far seem extremely useful and encouraging.
I'd like to add my own little anecdote, if I may. What I noticed after flirting with High Eq., then taking the long, disheartening fall into Dark Night, was that my sense of the "map" began to unwind completely. Up until that point, I would have sworn that I was not at all attached to the classical Theravada model of awakening, seeing it objectively, only as a helpful guide. In fact, I was truly unconsciously clinging to it with utter desperation- reading the Commentaries, on-line practice records, etc., hoping to find the one thing I've been missing all along to make Equanimity a permanent state of being.
Upon realizing my (pretty subtle) mistake, practice took on a much more mature quality: It was difficult at first, (and Antero puts it better than I can in his post above) but I did finally begin to develop a real interest in the sensations and mind-states that I had always just glanced over before: Boredom, anxiety, resentment, etc. Also, noting more and more off the cushion began to be very engaging, and Third Gear-related practices suddenly became quite relevant, and even inviting.
And you, sir? I take it you're not just asking this question out of the blue- what's your experience been like with this territory?
Best wishes,
G.

First time posting here, but since I suspect a recent experience of mine may have been this falling-back...

I had one and a half days of what I think was equanimity: open experience of neutral, accepting aspect, where the duality between self and world seemed to fade. then there was a sort of drop-out, suddenly very tired, head very heavy, eyes closing. This seemed to repeat once or twice, immediately, though it might have been a single episode with me fighting to stay awake. Then sudden onset anxiety, fear, despair (not crawling-the-walls-grade, but uncomfortable)


Now, it might have been my meds stopping for the day, so I wanted to know if the shift down to reobservation can be that clear and distinct?

"And you, sir? I take it you're not just asking this question out of the blue- what's your experience been like with this territory?
"

Well, I had been in what seemed to the higher reaches or equanimity for about 3 weeks. Around half way through this, Kenneth thought I was on the verge of stream entry. Panoramic awareness had settled in and was just there. I was even less annoyed by hovering news helicopters (something that really gets me pissed off when sitting). The one day as I was walking down the street I was overwhelmed by anger and disgust at everyone around me. The next day I was OK and was equaninmous during all sorts of nonsense. The following day I hated the sight of everything, and the thought of being reborn here in the midst of this one more time, let alone countless times, was horrid and disgusting.

So I seem to go back and forth, but it's more tempered in both directions. The open awareness of equanimity aint there. Sometimes when I'm outside I can claw my way back into it to some extent; yesterday I got taste that arose on its own briefly. The sense of space--around things, between things--almost seems palpable again as I type this. The reobservation side is mostly sneering contempt as opposed to the more melodramatic type of nonsense I mentioned above. When I chill out from said nonsense it seems rather ludicrous and silly when reviewed after the fact.

Also, when miserable, keeping squirrels out of th bird feeder is a dire struggle that must be waged; when out of that phase I look back at it and see I was acting like Wile E. Coyte.

So that's where I am now. It took me a day and a half to click on "reply" , but once I did I typed the whole thing staight through.

Eric

"Now, it might have been my meds stopping for the day, so I wanted to know if the shift down to reobservation can be that clear and distinct?"

My experience of the shift has not been distinct with any sense of transition or being on the cusp.

Eric

Hmm, maybe i'm just confused. Another (far-out) hypothesis is that my medication could affect the shift, when it stops working for the day (usually noticeable)
Anyone else has had the shiftdown be noticeable like that?

hmm - I notice the shift up, but the shift down usually feels like taking a wonderful walk in the forest, and then suddenly realizing you are stuck on a briar that you didn't see because you weren't being watchful enough, looking back up and realizing its briars as far as the eye can see.

Too add here, you might check in on five faculties or seven factors of awakening. Are they balanced? Effort can really get me here, because it's easy for me to think or feel that I'm not doing enough (mental habit), so the effort(ing) gets too high and then the tranquility or joy can start to fade and things get sticky and ugly. And if coming back into re-observations, sometimes my faith/confidence starts to slide, which then upsets other factors or qualities. In addition to noting, you might set specific intentions around whichever faculties/factors you feel would be helpful. But I only work on one or two at a time, to keep it simple and not get entangled in complexity and over-managing. In the seven factors model, there is mindfulness and then three energizing and three tranquilizing factors (are those the right terms?) if you just want three things to evaluate, work on. So, then the question is: What would be helpful in this moment to get where I want to go?

I've heard it said that when Ajaan Chah was criticized for giving contradictory instructions, his response was: It's like guiding a blind man down a road with ditches on both sides... When you see him going too far to the right, you yell: Left. When you see him going too far to the left, you yell: Right. I think the insight path or life in general can be like that too.

Sometimes, it feels a little like Goldilocks and the Three Bears. This samadhi [or insert your quality] is too hard, this samadhi is too soft, this samadhi is just right; or this effort is too hot, this effort is too cold, this effort is just right... Developing the intuition to know which is which and the ability to experiment with them are skills we're developing as we practice, or so I believe.

In Reobs, I believe that lightness, relaxation, acceptance and presence tend to help me most often... but those reflect on my unhelpful habitual tendencies more than anything.

One more notion I'm playing with while my mind is stirred on the subject... Reobservation may take the most habitual and also unconscious coping mechanisms or agendas and turn them against the one who is trying to cope and set agendas. It is a mirror of the unhelpful and hindering -- of the shadow side of the mind. What's put in is what comes out. Stop putting it in and it will stop coming out... now, there's a tip I should be trying myself on a more regular basis but easier said that done.