Seeing a reflection of myslef?

Hello all,

I had an experience where suddenly i saw my entire personality, my thoughts looking back at me, sort of like a mirror image, looking at myself, and then we both recognized that its all just a game, unreal somehow, with a smile. It was a pleasant experience, and though i still get lost in thought most of the time, my relationship has changed to them somehow

Also around the time of the above experience i noticed my body as i was walking, and it was totally empty of me, like this 'i', was not there, just this awareness that recognized that. i could see the body (my body) and the environment around, just 'i' was not there.

So, im just wondering if anyone could shed some light on these experiences?

thanks

"There is this sudden shift, and mental phenomena shift out away from the illusory sense of 'the watcher' and are just out there in the world with the sensations of the other five sense doors. This is an important insight, as it shows us clearly and directly that we are not 'our' mind or 'our' body. It is also a really nice, clear and unitive-feeling state (it really is still more state-like than stage-like), and people can try to hold on to it just as with the first jhana and get stuck. Reality can seem just a bit more brilliant the first time one chances into Mind and Body. We may feel more alive and connected to the world. For some it may hit with unusual force, filling them with a great sense of unity or universal consciousness. For others it may not seem very profound.

With the sensate experience of both mental and physical phenomena being clearly observable, the relationships and interactions between the two begin to become obvious. What is meant by 'the dualistic split' is very obvious during this first stage.

Somewhere around the first stage, either just before it or shortly after it, there may arise odd jaw pains on one side, throat tensions, and some other such unpleasant physical occurrences. Regardless, it soon becomes easy to see that each sensation is followed by the crude mental impression of it, and that intentions precede actions and thoughts (see the discussion of impermanence in Part I, The Three Characteristics). Thus, we come to..."

Daniel Ingram - MCTB 2. Cause and Effect

Any (heading up to possibly) 2nd gear takes on this?

Not that i claim to know anything about 2nd gear or anything, just curious...

With metta

These sound good to me, though I don't have much insight into the particular experiences. I think the key thing is the changing relationship with thought. As long as you know it's a game, you don't have to take your thoughts seriously.

I've only had fleeting glimpses of the second experience you describe, but I think that is that's where we're headed -- by stabilizing the first realization, we shift more and more into experience with no center. Would love to hear from the more experienced.

-John

"Thanks so much for the reply.

However, i was sort of hoping for a reply that didnt necessarily involve the vipassana model as such. Im doing more witness type practice these days.. I have noticed a sudden shift in perspective that i can 'do' to get to the 'witness state' when im on the cushion (though i could be misunderstanding the whole thing) and it changes my 'stage of insight' instantly, up to equanimity stage. And then i can choose to stay with that (which i choose not to these days) or shift to the formless, and then notice that i am aware. I was taking my above experience to be sort of a cross between almost fruition through the no-self door, but not quite as awareness is there, and some sort of link between that and the witness stuff ive been doing?

I thought the shift of perspective i notice on the cushion, to the witness state (or to different insight stage) might be somehow linked to my above experiences?

Or maybe not!

Still trying to figure all this 2nd/3rd gear stuff out.. "

How do you know you are doing 2nd gear properly and that you are in the witness state?

Have you traversed the various stage of insight up to the 11th nana in the past?

Have you ever had a fruition?

Prior to working with Kenneth, I had been doing mainly witness based practices and reading a lot of stuff about Ramana Maharshi/Nisargadatta and folks like that.

I do recognize where you are coming from. I remember going for a walk and just seeing the body move on it's own. I would feel like I dissolved into the scenery at times and spent a lot of time in nature. So yes, I do recognize what you are talking about.

It does sounds like you might be doing 2nd gear properly. I suggest you spend a lot of time becoming absorbed in the witness and see if it eventually winds up burning itself up and you find yourself in what we call 3rd gear.

It would be interesting to do some dialog on what you are experiencing. Perhaps you could still do a practice log to let us know how your practice unfolds. Using the witness seems to still be a vehicle for developmental enlightenment and perhaps we could see some of that stuff unfolding for you as well (although you may be interpreting your experience in a different framework).