- Forum
- Sanghas
- Kenneth Folk Dharma
- Kenneth Folk Dharma Archive
- Original
- For insight, Jhana or anapana?
For insight, Jhana or anapana?
- SamKoval
- Topic Author
14 years 11 months ago #74529
by SamKoval
For insight, Jhana or anapana? was created by SamKoval
So I usually spend the first half of my sit doing concentration practice either with a kasina or with the breath. While I find that the Kasina is incredibly powerful and rockets me into jhana in ten minutes or less, I cannot get into jhana via the breath unless I blatantly set my intention for first jhana and consciously generate the pleasant sensations of absorption which I've come to know and love. I've no doubt that abiding in jhana is valuable in itself in many ways, but I'm concerned that I'm short-changing the development of my concentration faculties when it comes to insight practice. In other words, wouldn't my insight practice be benefited more if I held back from intentionally cultivating jhana, and spent some time struggling with the breath. In still other words, the kind of concentration needed for insight pratice is a rigorous, percise, cutting stick-to-it-ness that I'm concerned Jhana doesn't provide. Whatdya think?
Thanks,
Sam
Thanks,
Sam
- NikolaiStephenHalay
- Topic Author
14 years 11 months ago #74530
by NikolaiStephenHalay
Replied by NikolaiStephenHalay on topic RE: For insight, Jhana or anapana?
In my own experience the more access to jhana territory the faster the progress through the stages of insight and awakening. Jhana does provide you with a very firm base and place to start noting and investigating.
Have you tried getting up to your "cutting edge", the highest jhana you have access to and just turning around and start noting phenomena?
Start your sit, get up into jhana, stay there 10 or 15 minutes, then start discerning and investigating what's going on in the moment from moment to moment. I assume you are aware that certain nanas correspond to the first 4 jhanas? If you could develop access to the 4th jhana, you technically have accessed the 11th nana of equanimity as we consider them here as the same strata of mind. Hang out there long enough, dis-identifying with, dis-embedding from and generating dispassion for all phenomena of mind and body and you are on the cusp of a cessation moment. This is my own experience.
You aren't short changing anything with jhana practice as long as you keep in mind that the goal is to discern phenomena and generate dispassion for it all. You can do that by just watching sensations, thoughts, sense of self or whatever arise and pass away continuously. You can also note it all just to be honest with yourself about what you are objectifying. I think the yogis that make a hell of a lot of progress in a short amount of time are those that have developed strong concentration abilities. Just keep in mind that it is all aiming to traverse the same strata of mind, and that you aren't cultivating jhana to "bliss out" but to access those strata of mind.
Read this if you haven't already :
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Jhana+and+%C3%91ana
and
homepage.ntlworld.com/pesala/Pandita/html/jhanas.html
Hope this helps
Have you tried getting up to your "cutting edge", the highest jhana you have access to and just turning around and start noting phenomena?
Start your sit, get up into jhana, stay there 10 or 15 minutes, then start discerning and investigating what's going on in the moment from moment to moment. I assume you are aware that certain nanas correspond to the first 4 jhanas? If you could develop access to the 4th jhana, you technically have accessed the 11th nana of equanimity as we consider them here as the same strata of mind. Hang out there long enough, dis-identifying with, dis-embedding from and generating dispassion for all phenomena of mind and body and you are on the cusp of a cessation moment. This is my own experience.
You aren't short changing anything with jhana practice as long as you keep in mind that the goal is to discern phenomena and generate dispassion for it all. You can do that by just watching sensations, thoughts, sense of self or whatever arise and pass away continuously. You can also note it all just to be honest with yourself about what you are objectifying. I think the yogis that make a hell of a lot of progress in a short amount of time are those that have developed strong concentration abilities. Just keep in mind that it is all aiming to traverse the same strata of mind, and that you aren't cultivating jhana to "bliss out" but to access those strata of mind.
Read this if you haven't already :
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Jhana+and+%C3%91ana
and
homepage.ntlworld.com/pesala/Pandita/html/jhanas.html
Hope this helps
