Khanika samadhi and the Three Characteristics

When I do out-loud noting, I don't generally make an effort to notice the Three Characteristics. Rather, I seem to be just looking to label phenomena as they come up and keep that process going without allowing large gaps in which the mind is allowed to drift.
By contrast, a lot of the vipassana practice I've read about, as in MCTB or Bhante G's Beyond Mindfulness in Plain English, emphasizes consciously trying to recognize the Three Cs. In the latter case, the suggestion is to literally allow an internal dialog: "Is this permanent? Does it satisfy? Is this me or mine?"

Just curious about when, if ever, you should consciously try to see the Three C's in action when doing out-loud noting.
Thanks!
Joel
(edited for typos)

Hi Joel,

I find that verbal noting works best with the 4 foundations, usually because I can max out my cognitive load more quickly and get into a good khanika groove.

However, when I'm doing silent noting I typically will try and do so as fast as possible. I find that 4 foundations style practice trips up my speed. That's when I pull out the three characteristics and stay with bare attention on each sensation, noticing each.

For me, high speed noting works better depending on what I want to do, and where I am in the jhanic arc. From J1-4 I can do with 4 foundations. After that, I normally switch to 3c's. BTW, this is for riding the arc naturally, not jhana jumping.

Thanks, Owen.
I seem to have no ability to recognize whether a particular jhana is happening. Maybe I haven't studied the phenomenology enough. I probably should have noted (no pun intended) above that I'm working on Stream Entry at this point. So I'm looking to make sure that my noting practice is optimal given where I am on the maps. Over the last few months, I seem to have made progress in keeping the noting aloud going without spacing out as much or falling prey to sloth and torpor. I suppose I'm a bit unsure when to transition to fast-paced, silent noting, or whether that would even be advisable at this point. Kenneth gave me instruction on The Wheel, but I'm not experimenting much with this and am kind of waiting until the gross-level phenomena are less pronounced and I make a bit more progress with the noting. This could be a mistake, however. Hmmm.....Don't know if I'm making sense at all.

Owen (or whomever else),

Could you expain how you do "3c's"? Do you intentionally look at something and try to notice each of the three characteristics? Do you look at one characteristic at a time?

For me, the 3 characteristics of suffering, impermanence, and no-self are a valuable but non-essential component of what we do... if what we do is intended to wake us up. I realize this will be shocking to some Buddhists, but after all there are many effective contemplative traditions, of which Buddhism is just one. Christian contemplative practice, for example, can lead to awakening and there is nothing in Christian theory about the 3 characteristics as far as I know. Ditto for Hinduism, Shamanism, and various other traditions.

One of the most important tools in the yogi toolbox is the skill of knowing when to use which tool. And this is a very individual matter. More, it varies from day to day or even moment to moment for any given individual. So we always have to be open, light on our feet, finding the point of equilibrium in this moment; how can I be present *now*? Noting can be a great support at times because it provides a feedback loop that keeps you on track. The very act of noting is a recurring reminder to return to this moment rather than being lost in fantasy, or what I call the "proxy life." At other times, reflection can be a great help. You can reflect upon the 3 characteristics or upon the 7 factors of enlightenment, or the 4 Noble truths, or the immanence of God, or the essential nature of mind. It's all good. As a practice, trying to find impermanence in realtime can also be useful, as Bante G. and Ingram have pointed out. Most importantly, trust yourself to find a way to be present in this moment. The rest happens on its own. Our conditioning and interests will always play a significant role in how we describe these things after the fact, but the objective is to awaken and the way to do that is to be awake. So, we return to this moment by whatever skillful means we have access to, always finding equilibrium in this moment.

"Owen (or whomever else),

Could you expain how you do "3c's"? Do you intentionally look at something and try to notice each of the three characteristics? Do you look at one characteristic at a time? "

Hey Mu,
My own approach to the 3c's is to sit and get focused doing some light samatha style breath counting. Once I'm reasonably focused, I switch to vipassana mode and instead of noting I simply observe sensations for one of the 3c's. For instance, if a sound rises in my awareness and I'm focused on impermanence, I will listen for the exact moment when the sound turns into silence. I will typically observe only one of the 3 for any particular sit. I notice the overall tone of the sit will change depending on which of the 3c's. I recommend frequent experimentation.

I guess it's sort of like, these aren't intellectual categories really. They are three characteristics of reality. If one isn't ignoring reality one should be seeing them, or will see them eventually as long as you are looking. So staying present in this moment is the key I suppose.

Thanks, Kenneth. This is helpful. I seem to struggle with wanting to follow the instructions in a very simple and straightforward way--i.e. note your butt off and don't space out, it's not about what you think you should do--versus adapting in the moment and actually experimenting with interest and enthusiam born of my own personal journey, so to speak. I'd say it's an understandable wariness because so many yogis, as Bill Hamilton pointed out, do their own thing and neglect the "follow the instructions" side of things altogether. So I will consider experimenting and adapting in the moment to be part of the instructions--with a view toward not letting myself go off the reservation too much, if that makes any sense!

My experience with altering meditation technique has been that it can be really helpful as long as you have something like a practice journal to keep track of which alterations help and which don't. That way, you can keep track of your results in a medium far more accurate than the human memory. Thus, you'll know which things bring consistent returns, which things bring diminishing returns, and which things bring no significant returns at all.

(Chogyam Trungpa is rolling over in his grave at me describing the path like returns on an investment...)

Plus, whenever you skillfully utilize your interest and enthusiasm, you can reasonably expect your interest and enthusiasm to increase, or at least, to not decrease.