A Seven Stage Model of Enlightenment (New Video)

A couple of weeks ago, Joel and I recorded an interview that fits right in with this discussion. I've synthesized the technical 4-path model and the ten fetters model into one seven-stage map that I hope captures the strengths and avoids some of the weaknesses of both models. As always, the objective is to help people realize enlightenment; to that end, I find maps useful, and the more accurate the map, the better.

Have a look and let me know what you think:

www.youtube.com/user/kennethfolkdharma#p/u/5/gqYUNHr

Note: The video is in six parts, so be sure to start with "Kenneth Folk 7 Stages of Enlightenment, (1 of 6)"; it may not be the first clip that comes up when you go to my Youtube page, so you'll have to find it and click on it, then watch the rest of the clips in order.

Here is an explanation of the 7 stage model, cut and pasted from one of my posts in the "4th Pathers Unite" thread from a couple of weeks ago:

The two attainments I am referring to [#s 6 and 7 in the 7 Stage model] are natural, organic changes that follow 4th Path. In other words, just as 2nd Path follows 1st and just as 3rd Path follows 2nd, etc., these two attainments are a natural consequence of continuing to practice post-4th Path. None of this changes the map up to 4th Path, it just adds to it. Think of it as 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree black belt.

One way to model all of this together is to nest the technical 4 Path model within the ten fetters model. If you then add the A&P as the first stage (thanks Owen for the A&P suggestion), you get a detailed and comprehensive map of awakening in 7 stages. This avoids the weaknesses of both the technical model (ends too soon) and the ten fetters model (lack of detail). The KFDh map of the Seven Stages of Enlightenment looks like this:

1) A&P
2) 1st Path by the technical model
3) 2nd Path by the TM
4) 3rd Path by the TM
5) 4th Path by the TM
6) Emotional transformation
7) End of self-contraction

The emotional transformation means that you no longer glom together a specific set of mental and physical phenomena, invest it with self and call it an emotion. The information still comes in the form of raw materials (5 physical senses and mental impressions) but is no longer mistaken for a "thing" called my emotion.

The end of self-contraction is similar, but more subtle: the group of phenomena that was previously seen as the "I" is no longer recognized as "I". There is only object.

I like this, "Repression is never going to solve this." I had a lot of concern that the advanced levels talked about here were some form of repression. As I have moved closer to them (not attained them) I found layer and layer of repression that I had been shoving deep down was pushed up to the service. Some moments have been very painful, but when these things come up they must be looked at before I continue to progress. In that way--it seems the process appears trustworthy, from my perspective... no shortcuts....

Clayton

"I like this, "Repression is never going to solve this." I had a lot of concern that the advanced levels talked about here were some form of repression. As I have moved closer to them (not attained them) I found layer and layer of repression that I had been shoving deep down was pushed up to the service. Some moments have been very painful, but when these things come up they must be looked at before I continue to progress. In that way--it seems the process appears trustworthy, from my perspective... no shortcuts....

Clayton"

Yes. It is only by looking directly at the mirage that we see through it. No shortcuts indeed. And repression is the opposite of enlightenment. We have grown accustomed to accepting a kind of shorthand in place of our experience. It's not our fault; it just develops that way naturally as we grow up.

At a certain point, for some people, that is no longer acceptable. You want to look beyond the shorthand to find out what is really going on. Each moment is as unique as a snowflake. You have never had this experience before and you will never had it again. Instead of settling for the shorthand, instead of saying "I'm bored," (or frustrated, or irritated, or anxious, or whatever), look beyond the file compression. Note the boredom or frustration, then unzip the file. Boredom is not boring. The body is alive with sensations in this very moment. It's delicious. This is your life. Become interested in how this body moves, how the muscles contract and expand in the wink of an eye. Look at how the body holds you upright, balanced; do you see how utterly amazing this is? How is it even possible? The fact that you are able to remain upright is a miracle in and of itself. Notice how it feels as the tiny muscle contractions and releases keep you balanced in an upright position while sitting or walking. You don't need anything more than this to be happy and free. Simple attention unravels the knot.

According to Youtube, 109 pioneers have watched the first of these videos on the seven-stage model and 42 intrepid souls have endured through the whole set. With such a respectable group, I'm eager to hear feedback on the ideas presented there. I have the day off from one-on-one sessions with yogis (today is Sunday), so I have lots of time and enthusiasm for a lively discussion. Who wants to begin?

'Enlightenment' is a word that can be drained of interest or meaning by constant repetition-- like any of the words I played that game with as a kid. 'I' is an interesting subject for this game, and 'me'.

If I were looking for evidence of enlightenment, I think I would completely bypass any of the traditional formulations couched in predictable language-- starting with 'satch*tananda', 'bliss', 'equanimity', and so forth and so on. Being adept with that language, to me, only demonstrates having made it one's business to master the language.

The longer I watch, the more sense those Zen koan interviews make: there IS no glib 'right answer'. The only 'right answer' is to have been transformed; and the transformation is palpable-- not something even the most foolhardy would try to 'talk the master into' [he's got a stick, and he's not afraid to use it! Worse, he's got that penetrating insight that doesn't quit.]

"'Enlightenment' is a word that can be drained of interest or meaning by constant repetition-- like any of the words I played that game with as a kid. 'I' is an interesting subject for this game, and 'me'.

If I were looking for evidence of enlightenment, I think I would completely bypass any of the traditional formulations couched in predictable language-- starting with 'satch*tananda', 'bliss', 'equanimity', and so forth and so on. Being adept with that language, to me, only demonstrates having made it one's business to master the language.

The longer I watch, the more sense those Zen koan interviews make: there IS no glib 'right answer'. The only 'right answer' is to have been transformed; and the transformation is palpable-- not something even the most foolhardy would try to 'talk the master into' [he's got a stick, and he's not afraid to use it! Worse, he's got that penetrating insight that doesn't quit.] "

While I mostly agree with you roomy, it's probably non trivial to try and go through all of the cases in the Rinzai Roku over skype.

If the goal is to get people enlightened in the most efficient way possible, it's helpful to have a precise language in which to converse. Zen is in its own way a much more pure approach, but it does have its share of problems. Trying to grok cultural nuances from ancient Japan as a prerequisite might not be the most direct route anymore.

Having good maps and unambiguous language can make it easier to fake something you don't have, but trying to talk other people into agreeing with your enlightenment when you don't have it is a pretty self limiting game.

"... trying to talk other people into agreeing with your enlightenment when you don't have it is a pretty self limiting game."

Yes!

And which, I think, was roomy's point

"'Enlightenment' is a word that can be drained of interest or meaning by constant repetition-- like any of the words I played that game with as a kid. 'I' is an interesting subject for this game, and 'me'

If I were looking for evidence of enlightenment, I think I would completely bypass any of the traditional formulations couched in predictable language-- starting with 'satch*tananda', 'bliss', 'equanimity', and so forth and so on. Being adept with that language, to me, only demonstrates having made it one's business to master the language.

The longer I watch, the more sense those Zen koan interviews make: there IS no glib 'right answer'. The only 'right answer' is to have been transformed; and the transformation is palpable-- not something even the most foolhardy would try to 'talk the master into' [he's got a stick, and he's not afraid to use it! Worse, he's got that penetrating insight that doesn't quit.]"

Yes, transformation is the game and without it no combination of words will suffice. At the same time, it seems that various traditions have found value in some kind of system for evaluating the progress of students. Knowing where you are on the map can serve as a confidence builder for students, as in "I know I am on the right track because my experience fits the map, so it's reasonable to assume that if I keep working I will continue to make progress." For a teacher, locating a student on the map allows the teacher to warn of the likely pitfalls of that particular stage. And again from the point of view of the student, knowing what is meant by "transformation" can serve as inspiration and can help the student resist the temptation to become complacent. If, for example, ill will is expected to go away at a certain stage, a student for whom it is still arising knows he or she has more work to do.

"...trying to talk other people into agreeing with your enlightenment when you don't have it is a pretty self limiting game." -OwenBecker

Yes. And I would add that trying to talk people into agreeing with your enlightenment even if you do have it is a risky and largely unproductive business.

As for the palpability of the transformation as mentioned by Roomy (which would presumably render maps unnecessary or even redundant), I'm a bit skeptical. I say this because there are so many spiritual leaders around the world who are absolutely adored by their followers but whose main stock in trade seems to be charisma. In other words, the appearance of wisdom may or may not equal wisdom. This observation that things are not always as they seem is further shored up by the fact that some teachers with real transformative wisdom have been lynched for their efforts to express it.

""...trying to talk other people into agreeing with your enlightenment when you don't have it is a pretty self limiting game." -OwenBecker

Yes. And I would add that trying to talk people into agreeing with your enlightenment even if you do have it is a risky and largely unproductive business.

As for the palpability of the transformation as mentioned by Roomy (which would presumably render maps unnecessary or even redundant), I'm a bit skeptical. I say this because there are so many spiritual leaders around the world who are absolutely adored by their followers but whose main stock in trade seems to be charisma. In other words, the appearance of wisdom may or may not equal wisdom. This observation that things are not always as they seem is further shored up by the fact that some teachers with real transformative wisdom have been lynched for their efforts to express it."

Can't disagree--

I noticed an interesting nuance: the case I cited was the master authenticating the student. Whereas the situations your comment address are the students authenticating the master...

Perhaps there are important-- even crucial-- differences?

"I noticed an interesting nuance: the case I cited was the master authenticating the student. Whereas the situations your comment address are the students authenticating the master...

Perhaps there are important-- even crucial-- differences?"

Yes, it's a good point, Roomy. The first thing that jumps to mind is that in both cases we have one human being evaluating another, with all the complications that entails. Between the transference and countertransference, the optimism, the projection, and the changing filters of the mind states, it's a wonder we ever get anywhere! Still, this process of deconstructing ourselves seems to take hold if we give it half a chance and at the end of the day turns out to be more than worth the trouble. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.

"Yes, it's a good point, Roomy. The first thing that jumps to mind is that in both cases we have one human being evaluating another, with all the complications that entails. Between the transference and countertransference, the optimism, the projection, and the changing filters of the mind states, it's a wonder we ever get anywhere! Still, this process of deconstructing ourselves seems to take hold if we give it half a chance and at the end of the day turns out to be more than worth the trouble. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts."

I think I must sound more dismissive than I intend. It's probably an inherent defect in my tending toward the concise as a result of 'pondering these things in my heart' to an excessive degree.

I know it flies in the face of the consensus that 'equality' or the democratic principle means that we are all the same-- but to me, saying that the teacher evaluates the student parallels 'the parent raises the child'; each party has different functions, roles, and capacities in the transaction. They are equally important, but they are not the same. There are much more heavy and serious responsibilities on the teacher-- both for his/her own authenticity, and for being accurate with the student.

And, as the student is not, in fact, a child and literally dependent in all things-- the student has the responsibility to remain attentive and honest. This is a responsibility to her-or-himself, and it is what is within the student's power to enable the process.

"I know it flies in the face of the consensus that 'equality' or the democratic principle means that we are all the same-- but to me, saying that the teacher evaluates the student parallels 'the parent raises the child'; each party has different functions, roles, and capacities in the transaction. They are equally important, but they are not the same. There are much more heavy and serious responsibilities on the teacher-- both for his/her own authenticity, and for being accurate with the student." -Roomy

Yes, the roles of teacher and student are not the same. And this recognition does fly in the face of both humanistic culture and internet fora. But it's important to acknowledge these differing roles because there is an objective to teaching dharma that goes beyond entertainment. And from the points of view of both teacher and student, the objective is the same: the student's progress. So equality be damned, the student is coming to the teacher to learn. Otherwise, the relationship is bankrupt from the start. A good parallel for this would be French lessons or personal fitness training. The student comes to take advantage of the specific knowledge and skills of the teacher. In fact, this is the model I follow on this forum, which is why I am not always as tolerant of dissent or "critical thinking" as some other discussion forums would be. Just as my French teacher is not particularly interested in my opinions about French and stubbornly insists upon teaching me the rules and music of the language, I am not always infinitely tolerant of the views of my students regarding meditation and enlightenment. There is a balance to be struck, of course, and ignoring your students entirely is poor pedagogy. Hence, this forum...

A couple of weeks ago, a newcomer came to our sitting group in Atlanta and started talking about how meditation used to be this easy, beautiful experience, but that now it had started to seem almost impossible. She seemed perplexed and distraught and said it was almost as though her connection to the divine, as she put it, had been severed. She was talking about the dark night in such textbook terms that I almost laughed out loud. We have since had a conversation about the states and stages of the technical, four-path model. I could tell she was really relieved to be introduced to the idea that there was nothing wrong with her and that the dark night is a common experience. I explained to her that I'd discovered a couple of techniques that have helped me to feel that my practice has some momentum again--samatha practice and noting as taught by Kenneth--and I also hipped her to Jack Kornfield's <i>After the Ecstasy the Laundry</i>. Seems to me that this kind of thing is where the value of the maps comes in. Here's a person who now maybe has a sense of the developmental aspect of things and is less like a rudderless ship. What she chooses to do with this information, of course, is up to her.
Incidentally, it made a lot of sense to talk about the A&P as the first stage. I didn't do so in talking to this person but I really like that as a first stage.

"I could tell she was really relieved to be introduced to the idea that there was nothing wrong with her and that the dark night is a common experience..."

Thanks for sharing this story, Joel. This is a great example of how the maps can help. When I met Bill Hamilton in 1989, I was in a similar place to the woman you mention; I had lost my way in my meditation and thought I was failing because I couldn't "get back" the lofty heights I seemed to have visited with my first opening (A&P) seven years earlier. When Bill explained that what had happened to me was not only common but predictable, I felt relieved. I began practicing with renewed hope, and the more time passed the more I was blown away by how accurately these thousand-year-old maps had predicted what was happening to me.

"Incidentally, it made a lot of sense to talk about the A&P as the first stage." -jgroove

Yes, I think so too. It is always a bit awkward when using the technical 4 Path model to have to explain to people that this often amazing and earth-shattering thing that has happened to them (the first opening or Arising and Passing Away of Phenomena) isn't even on the map! It makes a lot of sense to include it as the first of the seven stages.

"A couple of weeks ago, a newcomer came to our sitting group in Atlanta and started talking about how meditation used to be this easy, beautiful experience, but that now it had started to seem almost impossible. She seemed perplexed and distraught and said it was almost as though her connection to the divine, as she put it, had been severed. She was talking about the dark night in such textbook terms that I almost laughed out loud. We have since had a conversation about the states and stages of the technical, four-path model. I could tell she was really relieved to be introduced to the idea that there was nothing wrong with her and that the dark night is a common experience. I explained to her that I'd discovered a couple of techniques that have helped me to feel that my practice has some momentum again--samatha practice and noting as taught by Kenneth--and I also hipped her to Jack Kornfield's <i>After the Ecstasy the Laundry</i>. Seems to me that this kind of thing is where the value of the maps comes in. Here's a person who now maybe has a sense of the developmental aspect of things and is less like a rudderless ship. What she chooses to do with this information, of course, is up to her.
Incidentally, it made a lot of sense to talk about the A&P as the first stage. I didn't do so in talking to this person but I really like that as a first stage. "

Joel, this real world application illustrates the point wonderfully. I have found tremendous value in the maps. Finding out that I was in the third nana was a relief after my practice had seemingly degenerated into a dead end of metaphorically walking into wall and tripping over furniture.
Eric

I watched all 6 in one sitting and appreciated all of the videos. One of the most useful insights was into the limitations of the 4 path model as promulgated here, dho etc. I was confused by the 'dissatisfied' arahats who went looking for something better e.g. Actual Freedom. In my limited reading of the Pali canon I never read where Sariputta says to the Buddha " Venerable Sir - being an arahat just isn't doing it for me". And I started to wonder if Dr Ingram, Kenneth, Tarin Greco etc were actually enlightened and worthy guides.

Now I feel more settled as it seems that the limitations are attributable to the 4 path model as transmitted via the Burmese, and that Kenneth's 7 stages incorporating the 10 fetters model allows for the uprooting of greed, hatred etc rather than merely their attenuation (it also seems to make sense of AF within the Buddhadhamma, though the actually free may not see it thus).

I'm interested in how the insight knowledges map on to the seven stages - I.e are they only applicable to stages 1-5, and is there an equivalent for stages 6-7.

Time for me to stop as I am starting to leave the shallow end of the pool. ;- )

Hello, Kenneth. I am very grateful that you have taken the time to make some of your teachings available in video format on youtube. Your clear and easily accessible teaching style comes through well in the videos and has been perhaps even more beneficial for me than reading many of the insightful posts here on the forums.

I really think this 7 stage model you described makes a great deal of sense, and continues with the worthy aim of bringing together otherwise disparate models. These models are even more effective when they complement each other in this fashion.

I followed along with the guided tour of the jhanas series of videos, and really felt a sense of getting a tangible preview or glimpse of territory that was otherwise undeveloped for me. Being able to listen and follow along with audio or video is especially effective in this regard compared to reading and then later exploring.

Finally I followed along with the technique you were describing in the direct path videos and found this extremely effective. I was especially struck by how powerful this is in the sense that, I had some painful sensations that would come and go, it's quite amazing that when one really gets in the direct mode the disturbance(s) and associated pain / anxiety are held in check.

I hope we will have the good fortune of following along to more videos from you in the future, many thanks!

metta!

"Now I feel more settled as it seems that the limitations are attributable to the 4 path model as transmitted via the Burmese, and that Kenneth's 7 stages incorporating the 10 fetters model allows for the uprooting of greed, hatred etc rather than merely their attenuation (it also seems to make sense of AF within the Buddhadhamma, though the actually free may not see it thus)." -BBodell

Hi BBodell,

Thanks for your clear, on-topic comments and questions. As for the limitations of the technical 4-path model being attributable to the Burmese, I would prefer to take responsibility for that interpretation; there are many individuals within the Mahasi Sayadaw tradition and as far as I know there is no universal agreement as to how to interpret the 4-path model. Some Burmese yogis, including Dipa Ma are or were using the ten fetters model. I am more comfortable saying that the technical model is my own interpretation and any flaws in it are due to my misunderstandings; I may have misunderstood what my teachers said.

"I'm interested in how the insight knowledges map on to the seven stages - I.e are they only applicable to stages 1-5, and is there an equivalent for stages 6-7."

Great question! I would say that although the cycles continue in the background as kind of natural rhythm, they are not particularly relevant to the attainments of the 6th and 7th stages, which have more to do with seeing through compound phenomena that were previously unquestioned.

"I hope we will have the good fortune of following along to more videos from you in the future, many thanks!"

Thanks, Malt!