Spiritual elitism - or in what way I know nothing

I've been thinking about elitism in different fields of my life. I guess the most profound thing that has hit me lately is the way how in Zen-tradition everything is built in such ways that enforces the lineage, the teacher and the tradition as the "holder of wisdom". This is something that Stuart Lachs has written many good articles on. It is also something that lead my zen group to become independent few week ago.

So the important question is that what do we really know? What is knowing in different contexts? The word has many meanings. We tend to think knowing as something that has to deal with concepts and how to combine those in creative ways to build theories and viewpoints. But that's just very superficial way of knowing.

The other end of knowing, where only empirical observations of this moment are accepted as true knowing isn't much better. What do I know then? That my fingertips feel cold, that there's tension in my hip, that my mind feels tense and energetic at the same time. What usage has that kind of knowledge if it isn't integrated to the other kinds of knowing? I mean we need to be aware of the past experiences and make assumptions of the future in order to survive another moment.

There's certain element of elitism involved when people say that they possess the "not-knowing" mind. What they really say is that they actually know more than most others - they know how it feels to not-know. In zen such person might be lifted as an enlightened person who acts always the right way from the not-knowing mind. However, in practice it doesn't seem to work that way...

So where would be the golden middle way? Can I say that yes, I am knowledgeable in many concepts concerning the spiritual practice - and I have also many personal experiences that have contributed to that knowledge. But at the same time I know it is a very small fraction of what could be known.

I don't know

Hello Kundun,

I don't really understand the connection between elitism and 'not knowing'. All I can say is that when we start to see our thoughts for what they are in realtity, namely vibrating mind-stuff, our nice theories about everything tend to crumble down.

Unltimately, we realize that our true nature was never born and will never die, but that doesn't necessarily make us a better or wiser person. This is why it is foolish to assume that a great roshi, lama or guru would know better than us how we should manage our life. Genuine spiritual teachers know the path that they have followed to reach enlightenment. No more, no less.

Well I was just thinking about the elitism of knowing - I guess that is often a danger when one advances in the training to some level. I think there has been discussions about that in the forum lately. I thought I'd write something about that as I do have personal experiences of that.

However, as I started to write I realized that I have also experience of the opposite - elitism of not-knowing, if you will. I think that this is very much related to Trungpa's book "Spiritual materialism".

So the middle way here is also important - how to remain functional human being without falling into either the elitism of knowing or not-knowing..

Kenneth's "Not knowing" refers to disposession of any knowledge, even the knowledge of the not-knowing mind.

That is the middle way.

"Kenneth's "Not knowing" refers to disposession of any knowledge, even the knowledge of the not-knowing mind.

That is the middle way."

It is also a paradox.