Need a bit of guidence to get out of this mess and to the next step.

tl;dr version:
Been practicing meditation for a few years. Went to India, did 10 day Tibetan retreat, saw the Bohdi tree, had fun, learned alot, became focused on figuring out this suffering gig. Came back to home and practiced different techniques-mostly samatha. Found MTCB, read it, went on Goenka 10 day retreat. Did great with insight practice. Hit A&P right before last semester of college( last dec.) Oh noes, now I am in the dark night and everything is crazy, disturbing and now I am drinking almost everyday. A few months later.... Graduated college 2 weeks ago. Went camping to do personal retreat. Dharma starting to pull me in right direction again. This has to happen. I need to finish what needs to be done!

Long Version:

Howdy everyone,
Its great to have places like this online. I dont have any teachers in my area and with so much work and school (about to start grad school in fall) I dont have time to go on a retreat for a long time.

I went on a 10 day Goenka retreat last Dec and made some really great progress. By day three I had some really 3C experiences with my body shifting outside its parameters and feeling like i was streched out 100 feet in all directions with my face twisting to one side. I progressed forward and had a great A&P experience, cool visuals and solid equanimous mind states.

Then I came back home, began getting ready for my last semester and planing my career goals and possible grad school applications. I was still feeling equanimous but with all my work I started to slack off with my meditation. Well, everything came crashing down and I started to feel dispair like I never have before...

cont...

The past few months I have been viewing life like, "whats the point, I am just going to die and thats it. So why do anything but have fun and drink everyday!" Most material things that used to make me happy lost their flavor and I became very disinterested in anything but thinking about the dharma and life in very dark terms- kinda like poking at a sore tooth, it hurts but you still do it.
I graduated on May 15th. I was in my cap and gown and sitting in the crowd as we were recieving graduation speaches at the commencement and all I could do is look around with disgust at the whole thing. I didnt even feel like I was actually there. It didnt seem real. I dreamed for so long (took me 10 years to finally graduate) about this day and now that it was here I didnt even want to be there. The problem is, that I couldnt think of anywhere else that would be better. I wasn't desiring any other condition. It wasn't like I wanted greener grass, more like I was tired of all grass. It is all so empty (in so many ways). I just felt sick-physically, mentally and spiritually.

I went camping for a week afterwards (last week). I meditated alot. Listened to a ton of buddhist geeks podcasts (including all the daniel and kenneth ones) re-read some of my favorite sections of my favorite dharma books and pondered life.

So what is different now? I came to the point where I was fed up with this whole dark buisness. Life may not have some beautiful conclusion to it, but damn it there has got to be something better than feeling out of control with no solid foundation.

So it happend to me on the 5 hour drive home. I had just listened to Kenneth's buddhist geek podcast where he was talking about the 3 speed transmition. I was stuck in some really bad traffic and my mind was out of control. So I just determined to "turn it off" and just shifted to the 3rd gear and tried to exhist as awareness....
.

cont...

Now, I have tried this before. 3rd gear is good stuff but I always got too distracted and went back to structured meditation. But this time I was so frustrated, stuck in this car, and still distressed with life in general from the dark night that my mind was crying out for me to do something. I just yelled "stop it!" to myself and focused with everything I had to just be awareness and nothing else. Seriously, there is no better motivation that being faced with your own destruction.

So it worked pretty well. No, I didnt have any noteworthy realizations or anything like that. It was more like my mind went through a hard reboot and everything just shut up for the rest of the ride home. I was just piece by piece momemt by moment existence. The interesting thing to me was the after effect. For the next 5 or so days since this occurence my mind has indeed "shut up" a bit more and I dont feel anywhere near as dark as I did in the previous few months. I really dont know why. Maybe I was just ready to get going again with this insight progress stuff.

Ok... so I am seeing this as a very good chance to get the hell out of dodge. I know there are difficult stages beyond and the dark night will happen again and again but I am not interested with being stuck anymore.

My meditation latley has been good. 20-30 min. I do some samatha to settle in and find it quit easy to get right back into some good meditation again. I have been doing some Goenka-style body scanning and also a bit of Mahasi noting(since everyone raves about it. lol). I am sure I am heading in the right direction but I am very open to suggestions, tips, and hints right now.

cont...


I HAVE to get through this. I not only need to get to stream-entry but I need to go all the way. Not for powers, not to perfect anything, and not to become someones guru but for the end of this useless suffering. I mean, thats why we do it right?

Nothing sounds more soothing to me right now that the words, "done is what needs to be done". That is all I want.

thanks for listening

-Anthony

Of course my first piece of advise is to hook up with Kenneth and get some one-on-one instrution -- phone, skype, pm -- whatever you can do.
Then, use the people on this site as resources. There are people here who are at first path and beyond and even a couple of arhats. They are great at working with you by commenting on your posts and are also good about replying to PMs.
And, believe me, what you are going through now will end and then something great will happen and then something unpleasant will happen and then something boring and then something great and all along you will gain insight. But, for sure, what is happening now is temporay -- that's just the way it is.

It sounds like you're doing well. Frustration is normal, just... frustrating.

Life may not have some beautiful conclusion to it, but damn it there has got to be something better than feeling out of control with no solid foundation.

Eventually you will understand that it is the lack of solid foundation which makes life so beautiful. The hard part is finding that special perspective and making it stick.

No, I didnt have any noteworthy realizations or anything like that. It was more like my mind went through a hard reboot and everything just shut up for the rest of the ride home. I was just piece by piece momemt by moment existence. The interesting thing to me was the after effect. For the next 5 or so days since this occurence my mind has indeed "shut up" a bit more and I dont feel anywhere near as dark as I did in the previous few months. I really dont know why.

I am not an expert in the Theravada system so I will refrain from comment, but I recommend you ask Kenneth or someone about this series of events.

Hi Anthony.
One thing to remember here is that you might well have two things going on: the dark night, post A&P, AND the onset of the very challenging, disorienting and often depressing period of life right after college. These are "lost" years for a great many people. Either one of these events would be difficult to deal with on its own. To have them occurring at the same time is an extreme challenge. What is awesome for you is that you have the resources to make distinctions and understand what is going on. Because you understand the states and stages of the path--something that the vast majority of meditators have no clue about--you are far less prone to attribute all of your suffering to the inadequacy of your life situation and your "content." Still, you should recognize that this post-graduation period is extremely depressing for a LOT of people. The long and the short of it is--have compassion for yourself, as much of it as you can generate. If you don't do metta practice or tonglen, consider taking up those practices and consciously working to generate positive energy. If you don't work out, consider getting a really good exercise program going--that can do wonders for your brain chemistry, energy level and overall mood. Just my two cents.
Best of luck on your journey, man!
Joel

"One thing to remember here is that you might well have two things going on: the dark night, post A&P, AND the onset of the very challenging, disorienting and often depressing period of life right after college. These are "lost" years for a great many people"

This is true, of course. I was thinking to myself (in a sarcastic tone), "man, this sure is a great time in my life to be goin through dissolution. All my peers are going out to celebrate and I am ready to jump out of my skin!"

But like I said, I think I am entering in a new stage. Or at the very least the darkness has subsided just enough to get going with meditation again. My practice is getting better and it seems like I can see a tiny little light ahead. I just need some pointers to get a boost in the right direction. Dont want to go back to the bleakness. /shivers

Thanks for the replies everyone.

So I have been noting as much as I can all day long with as many sits as I can sneak in.

I know its counterproductive buy my overachiever personality thinks I should be doing something more grand. Not that I am feeling anxious, rather I am enjoying an elevated level of energy for doing meditation and I want to take advantage. I want to travel forward as far as I can.

Any suggestions?
.

"So I have been noting as much as I can all day long with as many sits as I can sneak in.

I know its counterproductive buy my overachiever personality thinks I should be doing something more grand. Not that I am feeling anxious, rather I am enjoying an elevated level of energy for doing meditation and I want to take advantage. I want to travel forward as far as I can.

Any suggestions?
."

Make a note of it. None of our ideas, impulses, evaluations, claims-- mental content-- is all that, if the 'goal' is basically to get over yourself. Simple as pie. And hard as Hell, because we're not REALLY sure that getting entirely over ourselves will be required in our particular case-- maybe 'I' can better some of the odds--? Well and good, if you're willing to give a straight answer to 'how's that workin' for you, then?'

Hi Anthony,
Sorry that you are tumbling through this difficult time 'trying' to jump out of your skin.' I'm no dharma doctor but here is a suggestion. It appears you have passed through the phase of desire for deliverance and re-observation and may have hit soft or the early parts of equanimity. But it doesn't really matter. Try this. Over achievers are always pushing, yes? I found when going through this first time round that simply asking the question, "Who is pushing?" and then immediately turning or tuning into the body sensation, I inevitably experienced the sensation of tension, which I was able to release on the out breath. There is enormous tension in your body. This process helps relieve it. As it dissipates, so too does the tension in your head. Also, try not to think too much, just observe who you think you are with compassion, what you think you are doing with compassion and very slowly, you won't jump out of your skin, what you think is in your skin, what you think is your skin, will dissolve, and happines will begin to appear irrespective of what is going on your life. Also, when you look out at the world, it is inevitable that you are holding a stack of comparison shoulds and should nots, beliefs about what your life is and what it is supposed to be. Return to a mantra question, who am I, who thinks this? Keep returning over and over, it's not a debate, you're not going anywhere, you are returning in a way.....sustained gentleness with powerful intention....good luck
Paul

"sustained gentleness with powerful intention...."

nice. i like that.

i have the house to myself this weekend so i am going to do a mini-retreat and keep at it. but maybe i will dial it back a bit. lol

"This is true, of course. I was thinking to myself (in a sarcastic tone), "man, this sure is a great time in my life to be goin through dissolution. All my peers are going out to celebrate and I am ready to jump out of my skin!"
"


Haha. Yeah, this pretty much sums up my last year of college and my first year out in the 'real world'. Dark, unsettled, lonely times.

Just thank your lucky stars you've got this place and resources like MCTB. Seriously. I spent an extra year wandering around in a fog, all because I didn't understand that the only treatment for my disease was to keep exposing myself to more of it in a systematic way.

The good news is that you seem to be discovering the impermanent nature of the darker stages of practice (i.e. those stages don't last). The bad news is that they keep coming back again and again. The really good news is that this very recurrence is what allows us to discover the deeper impermanent nature of the dark stuff (i.e. the phenomena making up those stages come and go moment-to-moment in a way that makes them not only tolerable, but even rich and interesting and illuminating).

Enjoy the ride!