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Emptiness Almost Within Reach

  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58048 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

Started listening to Adyashanti talks recently.

"The Means to Awaken," and "Living Unity," are two I highly recommend.

www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=listenonline



  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58049 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

Practice has recently meant a few things, to give a summary update.

1) Sila. Really coming back to attentiveness to thoughts and words and deeds, being attuned to what might cause harm, what is causing harm and what has caused harm. Or, put differently, interacting in an open-hearted way.

2) Resting in Buddha Mind. This is something Kenneth mentioned in the Hurricane Ranch dialogues. I don't have any clue about whether I'm doing this correctly, whether there is a correct or incorrect way to do this, or whether there's anything at all worthwhile to be said about this practice. For me, it's a deeply intuitive, momentarily-inspired, almost spontaneous matter, it's at once both wildly revolutionary and extremely familiar. Hard to say what I do exactly, but there are clear results, if that makes sense. Strength, intimacy, contentment, groundedness, and love are some words that sketch it out.

3) Noting practice, today returning to my own twist on the method: the rigorously maintained conscious effort to cling to anything and everything. In my experience, the effect is heightening awareness of whatever is arising, as well as increased non-attachment to that flurry of phenomena. It's like trying to build a snowman mid-air in a blizzard, floating ten feet of the ground. Ha! Good luck with that!

  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58050 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
"

1) Sila. Really coming back to attentiveness to thoughts and words and deeds, being attuned to what might cause harm, what is causing harm and what has caused harm. Or, put differently, interacting in an open-hearted way.

"


Working for social harmony is another way to describe this practice.
  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58051 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

With Jeff Grove's recent St. John of the Cross quote in mind, here's another recent talk by Adyashanti:

"True Love CD 1"

www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=listenonline

Enjoy!

  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58052 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach



Went through a rough bout of Re-Observation yesterday. And then woke up on three hours of sleep this morning, with a strongly diminished sense of a center of perspective. That strong sense of center has returned, but it was really interesting while it lasted, and very light, especially in body. It was kind of like some non-entity had decided to cover me for my work-shift in being. Thanks for the time off, pal!

Big insight about the Dark Night / reality yesterday: It might appear solid, but that solidity is just that, a sense of solidity. The Dark Night is not an it, neither is happiness it. There's just itness, that it-like quality ascribed to what is in fact not a thing. And even itness isn't it. It's just itness.

To realize this pretty much vanished the Dark Night (in its worst forms, as least), whereas in the morning (as I was pruning shrubs) everything SUCKED big time in that oddly unlocate-able way that is so prominent in the Dark Night. Like something's so OFF, but there's no identifiable cause in the conventional world; it's just like all of experience is covered with slimey, smelly, ooze. And it's not just all-pervasive, at its worst, it's also centerless: there's no mother-ship or home-base for the suckiness, 'out there' or 'in' the mind-body either. Well, yeah, that's reality!

  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58053 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

A few notes about dealing with the Dark Night:

1) I was going through a really rough period at my cousin's wedding the other day -- not a good setting for the Dark Night. : ( And then I remembered to just have a beer, and that was a really good idea. Chilled out and had some nice conversations. Got to bed early.

2) Also, I noticed Dark Night stuff creeping in a few days later at a time when I wasn't up for sitting with it, and immediately went for a run instead. I've found that exercise in general is a great idea when in the Dark Night. Especially for an intellectual type like myself.

3) Lastly, I made a formal resolution this past weekend, when dark, paranoid thoughts arose, to apply effort and maintain application of my skills in mindfulness and clear comprehension, and ever since they haven't given me trouble. "Fearful thought," "future thought" and "imagining thought" are all useful notes in those instances. And simply having made the resolution, when the thoughts arise so does the memory of that resolution, and I'm already in a stronger position than before.

Karuna,
Ryan



  • telecaster
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58054 by telecaster
Replied by telecaster on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
In all this developmental insight stuff, nothing confuses me more than the "dark night." I know I must go through it, but the only times I can really identify are when I get really frustrated with a lack of progress or something which I guess could be "desire for deliverance" but I still feel fine and positive during those times I just have some frustration or dissapointment but it is really no big deal. I always know it will pass.
So Ryuguy913, what is the "dark night" for you? How can you tell you are in it? Does it threaten your day-to-day mental health in any way? Does it effect your relatinships or job?
THANKS
  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58055 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
"In all this developmental insight stuff, nothing confuses me more than the "dark night." I know I must go through it, but the only times I can really identify are when I get really frustrated with a lack of progress or something which I guess could be "desire for deliverance" but I still feel fine and positive during those times I just have some frustration or dissapointment but it is really no big deal. I always know it will pass.
So Ryuguy913, what is the "dark night" for you? How can you tell you are in it? Does it threaten your day-to-day mental health in any way? Does it effect your relatinships or job?
THANKS"


Well, to answer these questions as succinctly as I can:

For me, the Dark Night includes an edginess where I'm irritable and unpleasant and ill at ease, jumpy and startled by the smallest little disturbances, unhappy with anything and everything such that I can be in a beautiful field on a farm or by a lovely babbling brook with the sun shining and not a care in the world and still life sucks. It can be as mild as what you described. But most often I can tell I'm in it because everything I experience has a gross unpleasant sheen covering it, and there's nothing going wrong in my everyday life. At its worst, yes, it does threaten my day-to-day mental health. Most often, though, it doesn't. It often doesn't last very long. This past week it's been particularly strong, I think because I was more stressed than usual and getting too little sleep. It can affect relationships and my job, but I'd say I've been successful at making sure it doesn't affect my job. Relationships, I haven't been as successful. I can be rude and abrasive and irritable when in the Dark Night. But, conversely, sometimes I can be that way without any insight messing with my life, and sometimes being in the Dark Night inspires me to be more conscious and caring with other people.
  • cmarti
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58056 by cmarti
Replied by cmarti on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

If I may about the Dark Night -- it appears to me as the suffering of the self that is in danger of being revealed for what it truly is. What's that? Well, it's the ultimate facing up to your human-ness, your foibles, your ego's unbridled selfishness, your recursive thoughts, your mind's spinning and wanting to escape the light being brought to bear on..... YOU. The effects of that process are anger, sadness, depression (not clinical), fear, anxiety, a desire to run away from the focus of attention being zeroed in on the self. We don't always know why we feel the way we do in Dark Night, but I recall examining it and realizing that it was mostly about facing up to what "I" was for the first time and recoiling in horror ;-)

JMHO

  • ClaytonL
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58057 by ClaytonL
Replied by ClaytonL on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
Thanks Chris great explanation of the Dark Night....
  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58058 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

Yeah, I second Clayton; good summary, Chris. It really is about "facing up to."

What I'm often facing up to is the deeply ingrained thing "wanting more." Sometimes it's facing up to just how strong that greedy, controlling, hunger is; really observing it. Other times it's facing up to how strong the disgust with that "wanting more," is. A shocking sense of "wait, I really want more of THAT?!" Or, from another perspective, "oh, wow, that hunger is really gross...do I really want to keep wanting?!" Or, "wow, that's fear! THAT is what fear is." Same with misery or disgust, etc. So, desire for deliverance isn't always the same. Sometimes it's desire to be free from the wanting. Or free from the disgust with the wanting. Or free from the fear. Or free from attachment to the 'good life' that is so intimately connected to the misery, etc. Or free from the harsh, ugly, judgmental, self-loathing side of that desire for deliverance. Or merely free from the unpleasant physical sensations. Or free from the whole thing of this mind/body - all it's processes and the stress bound up in them. Or free from the weariness and exhaustion and being sick and tired of the 'spiritual search'.

And there's such tenderness and love and beauty and compassion within all of that. It's really quite moving, if you've got a certain vantage point. If it hits you the right way.


  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58059 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach


Imagine working in a sewer system, and getting all stuck in the muck, and wanting so badly to be out of the muck, and then finally accepting that well, here you are, in the muck. And then oddly enough muck starts to look really adorable and sweet and it's not really even muck anymore, and before you know it, you're not even working in the sewer system anymore, whether or not you're actually still working in the sewer system. Make sense?

  • telecaster
  • Topic Author
15 years 7 months ago #58060 by telecaster
Replied by telecaster on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
"

Make sense?

"

Hell yes.
  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58061 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

So, it's been a while since I posted here. Last month, I got really tired of the vipassana rollercoaster, and - with some conventional life matters taking the forefront - I put the breaks on practice, and focused on other things.

I started taking a tai chi class last week, and that beginner perspective has been a good experience. And tai chi has also been an interesting new kind of concentration practice. The teacher has very high standards, so the exercises have been kicking my butt, physically. And the combination of his approach and the practice tends to get me very quickly into a very pleasant mind-set where I'm alert, curious, and light-hearted.

Continued...

  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58062 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

While that's a good mentality for investigation, I can't really do vipassana while doing tai chi. Aside from the different purposes and divided attention, it's also problematic because energy stuff starts going within seconds. I tried to apply first-gear practice during class at one point, intending to disembed from painful sensations that were becoming distracting, but instead of helping to maintain focus, my hips began to shake due to energy flow and I lost my balance. ; ) Whoops!

But I'm feeling ready to get back into formal sitting meditation, and I wonder if anyone here has any experience integrating tai chi and vipassana. I'd ask my tai chi teacher, because I know he meditates, but he speaks almost no English, so it's hard to have conversations with him. "Shoulder back! Turn crotch! Knee down!" is the extent of our interactions. : ) Very cool guy.

  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58063 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

Sitting today there was something I've tried to describe as "availability," or "willingness." It's kind of like a deeper sort of equanimity. It wasn't like, "things suck, but I'm ok with that." It was like, "this is the way it is." There was no sense of stress or suffering, like there was nowhere and nothing to latch onto. It wasn't a state or a stage, at least it didn't seem that way. There were perhaps some states and stages going on, and there were certainly all sorts of gross (not subtle) things arising and passing away. It was more like a pocket within experience, like an aspect or quality or wrinkle normally hiding from view --- or falsely associated with transient phenomena. Tuning into this tended to produce a very subtle bodily sensation of lightness, especially in the head, and a mental attitude of "hey, holding all this phenomena arising and passing away is my beloved job." Willingness to be a container. Willingness to allow objects to continue arising and passing away. Available for experience, whatever it brings.

I hope I'm not puffing it up nor downplaying it, because I don't mean to over-state or under-state anything here. I'm trying to describe something and understand it better. Seems worth investigating and potentially cultivating, whatever it was. Maybe nothing more unusual than what we call equanimity, but I didn't experience it like a mind-state. It was more like a feature of the structure of reality.


  • kennethfolk
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58064 by kennethfolk
Replied by kennethfolk on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
Tell me about the vibrations, Ryan. And the pressure, coolness, warmth, tension, release of tension, fluttering, thinking, imaging, heaviness, lightness, tingling, pulsing, throbbing, softness, hardness, unpleasant, pleasant, neutral, fear, anxiety, happiness, joy, impatience, dullness, self-satisfaction, self-loathing, worry, bliss, equanimity, confusion.

There isn't enough time for all this self-indulgence! There isn't enough time. There isn't enough time! You will get old, you will get sick, you will die. This life is too short to burn while you make love to ideas. Cut through the fog and tell me what is happening in this moment. You can speculate after you are awake. Stop spinning and note!

You can do this, Ryan.

Karuna,

Kenneth
  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58065 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
"Tell me about the vibrations, Ryan. And the pressure, coolness, warmth, tension, release of tension, fluttering, thinking, imaging, heaviness, lightness, tingling, pulsing, throbbing, softness, hardness, unpleasant, pleasant, neutral, fear, anxiety, happiness, joy, impatience, dullness, self-satisfaction, self-loathing, worry, bliss, equanimity, confusion.

There isn't enough time for all this self-indulgence! There isn't enough time. There isn't enough time! You will get old, you will get sick, you will die. This life is too short to burn while you make love to ideas. Cut through the fog and tell me what is happening in this moment. You can speculate after you are awake. Stop spinning and note!

You can do this, Ryan.

Karuna,

Kenneth"


Ok. Here goes:

Nervousness, softness, hearing, pressure, contracting, expansion, tentsion, softness, sadness, fluttering, coolness, ease, pleasant, twisting, release of tension, contraction, wetness, pulsing, shaking, tension, unpleasant, expansion, coolness, tension, release of tension, warmth.

Thank you, Kenneth, for the wake-up call. Embarrassment, tension, twisting, release of tension, heaviness, softness, pulsing.

Laughter, wetness, relaxation, twisting, pleasant, softness, confusion, sharpness, pulsing, tension, remembering thought, shame, unpleasant, contraction, sharpness, hoola-hoop motion in the head near the eyes, pogo stick motion in the head in the jaw and behind the eyes.
  • NikolaiStephenHalay
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58066 by NikolaiStephenHalay
Replied by NikolaiStephenHalay on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
"
Ok. Here goes:

Nervousness, softness, hearing, pressure, contracting, expansion, tentsion, softness, sadness, fluttering, coolness, ease, pleasant, twisting, release of tension, contraction, wetness, pulsing, shaking, tension, unpleasant, expansion, coolness, tension, release of tension, warmth.

Thank you, Kenneth, for the wake-up call. Embarrassment, tension, twisting, release of tension, heaviness, softness, pulsing.

Laughter, wetness, relaxation, twisting, pleasant, softness, confusion, sharpness, pulsing, tension, remembering thought, shame, unpleasant, contraction, sharpness, hoola-hoop motion in the head near the eyes, pogo stick motion in the head in the jaw and behind the eyes.
"

Wow, that hoola-hoop motion near the eyes and pogo stick motion in the head as well sounds like you are truly peeling back some layers there. And I'd like second what Kenneth said, but also say that what you just posted is something I can relate too and can't say more than ...keep on keeping on!!! :)
  • kennethfolk
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58067 by kennethfolk
Replied by kennethfolk on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
"Nervousness, softness, hearing, pressure, contracting, expansion, tentsion, softness, sadness, fluttering, coolness, ease, pleasant, twisting, release of tension, contraction, wetness, pulsing, shaking, tension, unpleasant, expansion, coolness, tension, release of tension, warmth.

Thank you, Kenneth, for the wake-up call. Embarrassment, tension, twisting, release of tension, heaviness, softness, pulsing.

Laughter, wetness, relaxation, twisting, pleasant, softness, confusion, sharpness, pulsing, tension, remembering thought, shame, unpleasant, contraction, sharpness, hoola-hoop motion in the head near the eyes, pogo stick motion in the head in the jaw and behind the eyes.-RyGuy913
"

Fantastic! This kind of attention to detail is exactly what'll git 'er done, Ryan. Keep on keepin' on.

Kenneth
  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58068 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach

Nick and Kenneth, thanks for your encouragement!!

Fluttering, twisting, contraction, tension, heat, coolness, wetness, tension, relaxation, dullness, hearing, squinting, unpleasant, twitching, squinting, coolness, heaviness, warmth, tensing, releasing, imagining thought, contracting, squeezing, twisting, motion in left side jaw, moving up near nose, below right eye, tension in right side jaw, coolness, shaking, fluttering, tension, sharpness, bending, neck rotating, bolting upright, torso rotating, twisting, tensing, coolness, wetness, fluttering, ease, pleasant, smelling, unpleasant, tension in face, coolness, pleasant.

  • kennethfolk
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58069 by kennethfolk
Replied by kennethfolk on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
"Fluttering, twisting, contraction, tension, heat, coolness, wetness, tension, relaxation, dullness, hearing, squinting, unpleasant, twitching, squinting, coolness, heaviness, warmth, tensing, releasing, imagining thought, contracting, squeezing, twisting, motion in left side jaw, moving up near nose, below right eye, tension in right side jaw, coolness, shaking, fluttering, tension, sharpness, bending, neck rotating, bolting upright, torso rotating, twisting, tensing, coolness, wetness, fluttering, ease, pleasant, smelling, unpleasant, tension in face, coolness, pleasant.-Ryguy

"

BRILLIANT!!! Ryan, you are an inspiration to me.

Next step: get out your digital recorder and take the 10-minute satipatthana challenge: Note ALOUD, with about one or two notes per second, for ten minutes straight. Listen to it back and congratulate yourself. Evaluate your work to see whether you included 1)body sensations 2)feeling tone (pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral) 3) mind states 4) thought categories. All groups should be represented, but prioritize body sensations and feeling tone, like this: pressure-neutral, tension-unpleasant, coolness-pleasant, fluttering-pleasant, strobing-neutral, vibration-pleasant, tingling-pleasant, warmth-neutral (or whatever the phenomenon is).

Then try it for 20 minutes, then 30. Work up to the point where you can do the one-hour satipatthana challenge and see if that does not blast you off of whatever plateau you may be working at. I bet it does!

Mudita,

Kenneth
  • ClaytonL
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58070 by ClaytonL
Replied by ClaytonL on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
Nice one Ryan!
  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58071 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
Thanks, Clayton. : ) The 20 minute recording: Fluttering, fluttering, fluttering, fluttering, twisting, tension, amusement, twisting, tension-unpleasant, fluttering-pleasant, expansion-pleasant, twisting-unpleasant, tension-unpleasant, twisting-unpleasant, sharpness-unpleasant, coolness-pleasant, warmth-pleasant, buzzing-unpleasant, dullness-neutral, amusement-neutral, contraction, expansion-pleasant, dullness-unpleasant, tension-unpleasant, twisting-unpleasant, twisting-unpleasant, remembering thought, swallowing, hearing-neutral, dullness, tension-unpleasant, sharpness, heat-unpleasant, pressure-neutral, heaviness-neutral, tension-unpleasant, unpleasant, remembering thought, gladness, smiling-pleasant, laughter-pleasant, sadness-unpleasant, thinking, imagining thought, remembering thought, confusion-unpleasant, irritation, stickiness, wetness-unpleasant, tension, sharpness-unpleasant, coolness-pleasant, twisting-unpleasant, irritation, swallowing, wetness-neutral, fluttering-pleasant, ease, relaxation-pleasant, hearing-pleasant, remembering thought, tension-unpleasant, twisting-unpleasant, amusement-pleasant, imagining thought-unpleasant, dullness-neutral, tension-unpleasant, weight-neutral, tensing-unpleasant, hearing-unpleasant, irritation-unpleasant, irritation, irritation, amusement, frustration, fluttering, shaking, amusement, laughing, tensing-pleasant, wetness, yawning, remembering thought-pleasant, remembering thought, imagining thought, rapture gooseflesh pleasant, more rapture gooseflesh pleasant, light in eyes, shaking torso, sweating, twisting-unpleasant, hearing-unpleasant, irritation, irritation, self-lpathing, softness, rapture, dullness, wetness, warmth, irritation, expansion, warmth, wetness, hearing, satisfaction, confusion, irritation, lightness, heaviness, lightness-pleasant, irritation, spaciousness, spaciousness, lightness-pleasant, twisting-unpleasant, fluttering, satisfaction, irritation, twisting, fluttering, irritation. Continued...
  • Ryguy913
  • Topic Author
15 years 6 months ago #58072 by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Emptiness Almost Within Reach
20 min recording continued: Tension, sweatiness-unpleasant, irritation, dullness-unpleasant, head sensations, sharpness-unpleasant, yawning, remembering thought, satisfaction, wetness, remembering-thought, remembering-thought, remembering thought, twisting, rapture-pleasant, rapture-pleasant, tingling-pleasant, tingling-pleasant, irritation, twisting, intending, sweatiness, tensing-pleasant, arm, seeing-unpleasant, shaking-neutral, tensing-pleasant, pressure-unpleasant, sharpness-unpleasant, sleepiness-unpleasant, hearing, remembering thought, imagining thought-pleasant, sadness, sadness, gladness, dullness, twisting-unpleasant, tensing-pleasant, hearing, tensing-unpleasant, imagining thought, remembering thought, fluttering, tensing, expanding, tickling-pleasant-unpleasant, dullness, sleepiness-neutral, self-loathing, irritation, frustration-unpleasant, knowing, satisfaction, tensing-pleasant, eyeball rotating, unsettled-unpleasant, dropping-pleasant, dropping, body jolted upright-neutral, confusion-unpleasant, seeing, remembering thought, imagining thought, fear-unpleasant, tension, seeing, dullness, restlessness, tension-unpleasant, remembering thought, seeing, remembering thought, imagining thought, imagining thought, tensing-pleasant, irritation, wetness, warmth-unpleasant, irritation, tickling-unpleasant, hearing-unpleasant, tension, hearing-unpleasant, itching-unpleasant, swallowing, self-loathing-unpleasant, seeing, amusement, hearing, pleasant, tension, sharpness-unpleasant, amusement-pleasant, self-loathing-unpleasant, sleepiness-pleasant, irritation-unpleasant, sleepiness-pleasant-unpleasant, sleepiness, softness, wetness-unpleasant, swallowing-unpleasant, coolness, shaking-pleasant, reslessness, sharpness, itching-unpleasant, dullness, yawning-unpleasant, air-pleasant, softness-pleasant, affection-pleasant, coolness-pleasant, tensing-unpleasant, knowledge-pleasant, imagining thought, remembering thought, intension-unpleasant, remembering-thought. Cont.
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