Tom's PJ
- current_event
- Topic Author
12 years 10 months ago #93868
by current_event
Tom's PJ was created by current_event
Howdy all,
Nice to see the site back up with the new and IMHO better look and functionality.
Here is a copy of a post I made at the DHO after my SE retreat and invite comments if you have the patience to read through it. Thanks hombres:
Howdy DHO friends,
well, i had hoped for a different type of post but the fact is that my just ended SE retreat did not land me path and this post is a request for a post mortem analysis and aid to help me tune my technique.
i used a couple of semi-precious holiday weeks to try to gain path. i did a self-retreat for 14 days following (pretty damned strictly) the schedule in Tarin Greco's Reformed Slackers Guide.
it was an up-and-down affair from the beginning and perhaps i will post a more comprehensive compendium of the highlights and lowlights later but for now I would like to get help on "how close I was" and where can improve.
Methods - Anapanasati and Mahasi noting.
i started my early sits with the first (in and out breathing) body contemplation to get into the "progress of insight". the later sits (after about day
would start in high EQ after just a couple of breaths). i have always had trouble with "where i am" on the maps but traditionally, for me, a sort of "face scrunching" energetic (sometime expressed as a yawn) would serve as my marker for the A&P having been passed. (comments?)
EQ is, phenomenologically, for me a calm mental space widening with the depth of the state and accompanied by temple and strong forehead / hairline vibrations. visually it is marked by swirling, undulating cloudlike mental objects with changing characteristics but generally tending to vanist towards the midle of the visual field. these, i realized during this retreat, are formations.
around day 6 i was clearly seeing "formations" during closed eye sitting and realized that they were arising against a background which appeared to be a "starfield": almost a perfect night sky including winking stars. i realized these "stars" were only winking when i looked at them and then only winking "out". under closer observations the were not dissappearing but "streaking off" like very fine metorites. at a further level of clarity i noticed that these streakers were, in fact, the "substance" of the formations, and these would "swarm around" either "inbound" (toward the observer) or "outbound" toward whatever. later they would bee seen as the "substrate" of the 4th vipassana jhana.
so i'll set aside all of the tricks i was doing and the amazement i was enjoying during such highlights. at some point i noticed that the swirly formations had sharper definitions in them at some places which seemed to be defined by a "masking" something or other. this looke very much the way certain "Nebulae". seen more closely at one point these "individual" formations seemed to acrete or aglomerate onto / into a more "massive" grouping of formations which looked like biological cells and formed a mass which moved slowly across the visual field almost like a huge starship. the impression i had during this process was that my brain was being remapped like a file system rebuilding. in any case upong further inspection the "Cells", or "individual" formations could be seen to be blinking on and off in certain locations, almost regular locations, and that the blinking when seen clearly was again this "masking" effect.
the next level of clarity was that the formations clearly held much more information (eg: rooms full of moving people, eating dinner and other very very detailed experience). this was about as detailed a view as i got into the mental object visual formations in this way.
later (around day 11-12) high EQ was as easy as closing my eyes, focusing on the calm space, seeing the starfield, focusing on the vibrations and i was there. at this point i was getting frustrated / bored and was trying to "just let it happen", gently observing and noting but did often indulg my tendancy to use brute force.
during walking i had very ramped up abilities to note such things as "intention to lift", experienced as a physical sensation on my scalp and a fine web of vibrations covering whichever side of my body was active. during sitting things in the visual field were flashing in synchrony with the breath and i could feel that same "wave" pulse anywhere in the body i focused my attention on (foot, arm etc.)
many times i tried to zoom in on the flashing of the visual formations and got down to a point where the flashing was very slow (end or beginning of the breath). by "tightening down" on the focus, i was trying to "see the gap" but was successful in only getting to a point where things seemed to condense to a vanishing point with the distinction that "images" or "pictures" were zooming by with tremendous velocity, barely cognizable. these "efforts" would usually end in an energetic "whoosh" bliss wave which i described above as my "face scrunching" A&P marker but never did i feel as though "I" or the "Universe" were gone.
so , was "over-efforting" my error? is it a time / ripening thingy that needs to happen on its own? am i a complete loser?
So, thanks for reading. and tips as to how to move on would be greatly appreciated.
If it is not already obvious. Very very deep gratitude to Daniel and Tarin and all of you who have helped me even when you didn't know you were doing it.
Humbly, Tom Moylan
Nice to see the site back up with the new and IMHO better look and functionality.
Here is a copy of a post I made at the DHO after my SE retreat and invite comments if you have the patience to read through it. Thanks hombres:
Howdy DHO friends,
well, i had hoped for a different type of post but the fact is that my just ended SE retreat did not land me path and this post is a request for a post mortem analysis and aid to help me tune my technique.
i used a couple of semi-precious holiday weeks to try to gain path. i did a self-retreat for 14 days following (pretty damned strictly) the schedule in Tarin Greco's Reformed Slackers Guide.
it was an up-and-down affair from the beginning and perhaps i will post a more comprehensive compendium of the highlights and lowlights later but for now I would like to get help on "how close I was" and where can improve.
Methods - Anapanasati and Mahasi noting.
i started my early sits with the first (in and out breathing) body contemplation to get into the "progress of insight". the later sits (after about day
EQ is, phenomenologically, for me a calm mental space widening with the depth of the state and accompanied by temple and strong forehead / hairline vibrations. visually it is marked by swirling, undulating cloudlike mental objects with changing characteristics but generally tending to vanist towards the midle of the visual field. these, i realized during this retreat, are formations.
around day 6 i was clearly seeing "formations" during closed eye sitting and realized that they were arising against a background which appeared to be a "starfield": almost a perfect night sky including winking stars. i realized these "stars" were only winking when i looked at them and then only winking "out". under closer observations the were not dissappearing but "streaking off" like very fine metorites. at a further level of clarity i noticed that these streakers were, in fact, the "substance" of the formations, and these would "swarm around" either "inbound" (toward the observer) or "outbound" toward whatever. later they would bee seen as the "substrate" of the 4th vipassana jhana.
so i'll set aside all of the tricks i was doing and the amazement i was enjoying during such highlights. at some point i noticed that the swirly formations had sharper definitions in them at some places which seemed to be defined by a "masking" something or other. this looke very much the way certain "Nebulae". seen more closely at one point these "individual" formations seemed to acrete or aglomerate onto / into a more "massive" grouping of formations which looked like biological cells and formed a mass which moved slowly across the visual field almost like a huge starship. the impression i had during this process was that my brain was being remapped like a file system rebuilding. in any case upong further inspection the "Cells", or "individual" formations could be seen to be blinking on and off in certain locations, almost regular locations, and that the blinking when seen clearly was again this "masking" effect.
the next level of clarity was that the formations clearly held much more information (eg: rooms full of moving people, eating dinner and other very very detailed experience). this was about as detailed a view as i got into the mental object visual formations in this way.
later (around day 11-12) high EQ was as easy as closing my eyes, focusing on the calm space, seeing the starfield, focusing on the vibrations and i was there. at this point i was getting frustrated / bored and was trying to "just let it happen", gently observing and noting but did often indulg my tendancy to use brute force.
during walking i had very ramped up abilities to note such things as "intention to lift", experienced as a physical sensation on my scalp and a fine web of vibrations covering whichever side of my body was active. during sitting things in the visual field were flashing in synchrony with the breath and i could feel that same "wave" pulse anywhere in the body i focused my attention on (foot, arm etc.)
many times i tried to zoom in on the flashing of the visual formations and got down to a point where the flashing was very slow (end or beginning of the breath). by "tightening down" on the focus, i was trying to "see the gap" but was successful in only getting to a point where things seemed to condense to a vanishing point with the distinction that "images" or "pictures" were zooming by with tremendous velocity, barely cognizable. these "efforts" would usually end in an energetic "whoosh" bliss wave which i described above as my "face scrunching" A&P marker but never did i feel as though "I" or the "Universe" were gone.
so , was "over-efforting" my error? is it a time / ripening thingy that needs to happen on its own? am i a complete loser?
So, thanks for reading. and tips as to how to move on would be greatly appreciated.
If it is not already obvious. Very very deep gratitude to Daniel and Tarin and all of you who have helped me even when you didn't know you were doing it.
Humbly, Tom Moylan
- current_event
- Topic Author
12 years 9 months ago #93869
by current_event
Replied by current_event on topic Re: Tom's PJ
...well.
Just trying to get back into a routine. The days following my busted SE retreat were devoted to resting (as it was extremely tiring) and to devoting extra time to my long-suffering wife.
So, I just sat for about a half an hour before my bladder forced me up and will continue in a moment. I do notice an aversion to sitting which could either mean that I have moved again into Re-Ob or that I have psychological aversion to assessing myself after my retreat.
The first real sit just went about a half an hour and it was strange. Strange in that noting was comfortable and immediately present but had an effortless character to it. There was also a great degree of bodily bliss right away and some signs of early equanimity (swirling visual mind formations). It has actually peaked my interest as it was really pleasant really quickly.
I'll try now to do a determined one hour noting sit....
Just trying to get back into a routine. The days following my busted SE retreat were devoted to resting (as it was extremely tiring) and to devoting extra time to my long-suffering wife.
So, I just sat for about a half an hour before my bladder forced me up and will continue in a moment. I do notice an aversion to sitting which could either mean that I have moved again into Re-Ob or that I have psychological aversion to assessing myself after my retreat.
The first real sit just went about a half an hour and it was strange. Strange in that noting was comfortable and immediately present but had an effortless character to it. There was also a great degree of bodily bliss right away and some signs of early equanimity (swirling visual mind formations). It has actually peaked my interest as it was really pleasant really quickly.
I'll try now to do a determined one hour noting sit....
- current_event
- Topic Author
12 years 9 months ago #93870
by current_event
Replied by current_event on topic Re: Tom's PJ
1 Hour sit...to the second. Was already scattered before the alarm went off but forced myself to remain seated. Good start, not unpleasant despite obvious inner sounds (shri and om) whichin re-ob are not only front and center present but can be annoying.
Good precise noting for a while then noted planning, analyzing...back to the breath...then back up to good eqanimous noting of mostly internal visual mental objects , inner sounds, inner energies, outer touch sensations, inner images etc.
I'm confident I will get back into the swing of things quickly. SE is still the biggest goal for me and the way to that I believe to be getting into and stayin in High EQ and , if possible, getting back to the point where I can really get a handle on the real time synchronized sense door thingy until my mind give p and lets me see through this mass of suffering.
As a note to myself about noting:
Note Description of object
Seeing Optical visual object or quality change thereof
Seein Visual object or quality / property change thereof
Hearing External Audible sound object noticed
Hearin Internal Aural object (Shri / Om) quality / property change thereof
Feeling External overtly physical touch sensation object, (air, cool,seat itch etc)
Feelin Internal energies, flows movements not attributable to obvious physical cause.
thinking Applied to lots of various mental objects which are not overtly visual
mostly i try not to proliferate and can stay quite busy with this minimal noting structure. using Kenneths double or triple noting (eg: air, cool pleasant) does work for me too but generally is not necessary.
Good precise noting for a while then noted planning, analyzing...back to the breath...then back up to good eqanimous noting of mostly internal visual mental objects , inner sounds, inner energies, outer touch sensations, inner images etc.
I'm confident I will get back into the swing of things quickly. SE is still the biggest goal for me and the way to that I believe to be getting into and stayin in High EQ and , if possible, getting back to the point where I can really get a handle on the real time synchronized sense door thingy until my mind give p and lets me see through this mass of suffering.
As a note to myself about noting:
Note Description of object
Seeing Optical visual object or quality change thereof
Seein Visual object or quality / property change thereof
Hearing External Audible sound object noticed
Hearin Internal Aural object (Shri / Om) quality / property change thereof
Feeling External overtly physical touch sensation object, (air, cool,seat itch etc)
Feelin Internal energies, flows movements not attributable to obvious physical cause.
thinking Applied to lots of various mental objects which are not overtly visual
mostly i try not to proliferate and can stay quite busy with this minimal noting structure. using Kenneths double or triple noting (eg: air, cool pleasant) does work for me too but generally is not necessary.
- current_event
- Topic Author
12 years 9 months ago #93871
by current_event
Replied by current_event on topic Re: Tom's PJ
toosday..back in the salt mines today. the manifold tasks and associated concentration really makes a difference (not for the better) in my practice. additionally a b-day party last night left my concentration, energy and discernment very weak.
nevertheless i managed an hour sit. it was not really very directed but the mind seems to find its way in the right direction given enough patience.
i started out simply sitting and after some very relaxing (too close to nodding) meandering. i started feeling some pleasant bodily bliss and dreamy energy. i started noting and moved through a pretty scattered chaotic audio visual storm which interested me more than it unsettled me which it might well have done in the past. despite not having had a cessation on my recent retreat, my sits have a different feel now. less of a sense of urgency or a direct goal, although it is still clearly stream entry that i am working towards. the goals tend to emerge and develop during the sits and are driven by a subtle curiosity which lacks a lot of the "attainment fever" which charachterized my sits only a few weks ago. i like the ease but feel i need to ramp up the power and focus to move on.
i got to seeing formations vaguely and since the retreat know where i want to get to with those but will let that evolve as it will.
i don't seem to be having A&P "rushes" anymore but will wait to see if that is due to my recent lackluster sits. interesting.
nevertheless i managed an hour sit. it was not really very directed but the mind seems to find its way in the right direction given enough patience.
i started out simply sitting and after some very relaxing (too close to nodding) meandering. i started feeling some pleasant bodily bliss and dreamy energy. i started noting and moved through a pretty scattered chaotic audio visual storm which interested me more than it unsettled me which it might well have done in the past. despite not having had a cessation on my recent retreat, my sits have a different feel now. less of a sense of urgency or a direct goal, although it is still clearly stream entry that i am working towards. the goals tend to emerge and develop during the sits and are driven by a subtle curiosity which lacks a lot of the "attainment fever" which charachterized my sits only a few weks ago. i like the ease but feel i need to ramp up the power and focus to move on.
i got to seeing formations vaguely and since the retreat know where i want to get to with those but will let that evolve as it will.
i don't seem to be having A&P "rushes" anymore but will wait to see if that is due to my recent lackluster sits. interesting.
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
12 years 9 months ago #93872
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic Re: Tom's PJ
I always experience a letdown after a retreat, and a reluctance to sit. Part of it, I think, is a subconscious longing for the conditions of the retreat, which are so conducive to settling one's mind. Daily life feels quite chaotic in comparison. You expect to be able to maintain some of that quiet, and find you just can't. The other factor is rebound after whatever opening one experiences on retreat, and even if it wasn't the one you were looking for, you did experience something beyond what daily life typically allows. In any case, don't be hard on yourself. You definitely have "insight disease" and will persevere towards the goal.
- current_event
- Topic Author
12 years 9 months ago #93873
by current_event
Replied by current_event on topic Re: Tom's PJ
Hi JLC, thanks again for the encouragement. Actually I feel pretty good. I didn't get SE by the standard measure but what I did experience added to the mountain of evidence that "this stuff is real" and that "it will happen". I think I just need to incorporate some more lessons and meat my overdeveloped ego into a more compassionate form and then see through this thickened veil.
That said there is a little aversion to sitting and I think you're spot on about the cause. I can't just take two breaths and be in High EQ. I'm glad you're here!
tom
That said there is a little aversion to sitting and I think you're spot on about the cause. I can't just take two breaths and be in High EQ. I'm glad you're here!
tom
- current_event
- Topic Author
12 years 9 months ago #93874
by current_event
Replied by current_event on topic Re: Tom's PJ
Howdy all,
i just finished an hour sit, wimilar to my hour yesterday.
Started with a yawn after a couple of breaths, which either means i'm tired (not really the case)' or it is MY usual signal for A&P. i have not read anything, but am curious, as to whether directly after a retreat one starts off at a higher baseline. Of course i know that after SE the A&P is the "new square one" but isn't it possible that due to the momentum of the retreat the baseline is temporarily shifted up? I know that DURING the retreat I was in high eq seconds after my butt hit the cushion but that was usuall after walking medi with no breaks so...hmm.
in any case after my usual Satipatana body meditation kickoff (up to "he trains thus, breathing in he experiences the entire body.." part, I started counting breaths as my monkeymind would not focus to expectations. 2x rounds up to 21 did the trick and I was soon noting with medium precision and focus, drifting a few times to emotional themes, coming back to noting up to re-ob-low eq where I had to break off due to work obligations.
Will sit again this evening with a strong will to stay 1.5 hrs min and get into high eq..SE always the big goal.
I'm missing the pleasures and pains of retreat.
i just finished an hour sit, wimilar to my hour yesterday.
Started with a yawn after a couple of breaths, which either means i'm tired (not really the case)' or it is MY usual signal for A&P. i have not read anything, but am curious, as to whether directly after a retreat one starts off at a higher baseline. Of course i know that after SE the A&P is the "new square one" but isn't it possible that due to the momentum of the retreat the baseline is temporarily shifted up? I know that DURING the retreat I was in high eq seconds after my butt hit the cushion but that was usuall after walking medi with no breaks so...hmm.
in any case after my usual Satipatana body meditation kickoff (up to "he trains thus, breathing in he experiences the entire body.." part, I started counting breaths as my monkeymind would not focus to expectations. 2x rounds up to 21 did the trick and I was soon noting with medium precision and focus, drifting a few times to emotional themes, coming back to noting up to re-ob-low eq where I had to break off due to work obligations.
Will sit again this evening with a strong will to stay 1.5 hrs min and get into high eq..SE always the big goal.
I'm missing the pleasures and pains of retreat.
- current_event
- Topic Author
12 years 9 months ago #93875
by current_event
Replied by current_event on topic Re: Tom's PJ
..an hour sit..really having to force myself..not a good sign but informative at least. VERY buzzy bliss waves started right away, even before i could get down to the "focus" ritual which starts every sit. so instead of Satipatannaing i just observed without noting so, noticing i guess. i tried to just let go, not even in a tactical way and this frame of mind allowed me to get through nana 4-9 lickety split. after a concious effort to chill out by simply noticing and not clinging to experience i settled into noting bare sensations for about 40 minutes. distractive thoughts arose more and more and eventually pulled me to a shallow state of concentration where i lost some steam.
this is an often repeated pattern which i would like to overcome. i believe hanging tough could reap large benefits but this is often a show stopper for me.
next intention: sit longer don't make such a drama of it all, get path
this is an often repeated pattern which i would like to overcome. i believe hanging tough could reap large benefits but this is often a show stopper for me.
next intention: sit longer don't make such a drama of it all, get path
