Viktor's Practice journal

Ok, so I have finally decided to put a journal here. I will just start with where I am now and not go through the last two months, even though they have been intense.

It's hard for me to describe my present state, since a part of my primary state is confusion with story telling or describing with words... and me still trying to see the transperancy of that story telling... to see the real nature of language. So I'm in kind of a confused relationship to the insight maps for the moment, wanting to find my place in them, but still feeling that I'm somehow caught up.

I don't think I'm actually in stream entry yet, even though it's close.

I don't identify with sensations, thoughts, feelings, I'm aware of their characterstics of rising and passing away...

But even if I don't identify I am still a subject. I'm like right between second and first gear if using the terminology of the three speed transmission: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""> ... Rw&index=5

I still have the feeling that I am watching my surroundings. The fact that duality is still here is extra clear in the sense of sight... I am definitely still observing the outer world even though I have no idea who I am... Closing my eyes it immediately becomes much clearer that everything is happening inside me, seeing still keeps up the illusion of duality though.

I'm unsure on how to take my meditation to a next step. I started out with Vipassana, scanning the body and sitting through long periods of extreme pain... looking back at it feels like I've pressed my self out of my body using the pain as a kind of place to push back from.

At the moment no pain.

I don't scan my body anymore and I don't note. I sit.

Doubts to how I should take my meditation to a next step comes all the time - &quot;maybe you'll get further if you keep body scanning&quot; - I let the thought rise and pass away instead of following its tip... &quot;What are you doing, what are you doing, you need guidance&quot; ... I let the thought rise and pass away instead of following it...

These doubts on how to make further progress has been for a few days. Before that I was very clear about the fact - &quot;just bodyscan or just note wherever you are&quot; ... it's like I've come to something new... a realm of doubt and confusion. Don't know how to handle it though. It's not painful... it's mildly frustrating...

PS. My eye problems have started to be an object for neurotic thoughts... I have always hade a problem with my eyes, that is hard to adjust even with glasses... it makes edges kind of blurry and makes it hard to focus - I haven't started thinking about it until now... I get neurotic thoughts whispering &quot;it's impossible to get enlightened if you can't focus your sight on an object&quot;... I don't know if you have anything to say about this, but I guess it's just neurotic bullshit that I shouldn't give any attention...

Welcome Viktor. Can you take a step back and talk about how long you have been practicing and what types of practice? Your post is a bit all over the place and we don't have much background to go off of, so it would be helpful to talk about your practice up to this point.

I've been practicing for two months.

Two months ago I was deep into a depression, self-loathing, unsecurity, social phobia etc... it wasn't my first depression. I wanted to run away kind of from my life so I googled for different monasteries and so on... and found a meditation retreat in Sweden (Goenka Vipassana Center) that held 10 day courses. I applied and went... practicing body scanning and ana pana for 10 days.

After the course I've been practicing very diligently... working to get more and more aware in everyday life (did a lot of noting in everyday life while mostly practicing body scanning when on the cushion). I also have done self-inquiry from time to time. So, to sum up the techniques I have used: NOTING, BODY-SCANNING, SELF-INQUIRY.

I haven't practiced samatha at all, haven't tried to reach any jhanas, I'm unsure if I have reached jhanas. What I have done is just trying to get more and more aware of the three characteristics in every sensation, every feeling, every thought, every sound... In this I have of coursed practiced samatha in a way, since awareness and insight isn't possible without concentration.

I've had a lot of sittings with intense pain. Some days my body has been in pain the whole day. But for the moment i'm rid of the pain... I've had days of extreme doubt and confusion on how to keep going... they are still here but in a different way.

The literature I read after the 10-day-course was mostly MCTB and I have also been looking at some videos on youtube by Kenneth and Ayashanti for instance.

I also had a lot of contact with another guy that I met at the center, sharing thoughts, doubts, confusion... he was the one who told me about this forum.

And the last week of time I have had a lot of confusion whether to stick to one teaching or keep practicing all of them... but at the same time I have been aware that this confusion is also rising and passing away.

So, where I am now -

I don't do any noting (sometimes when anger or anxiety arises). During meditation I scan my body from time to time but I don't feel obliged to anymore. I sit in a kind of confused state. The thoughts have come back with full power... they are kind of stronger than before because I'm not so eager to seize them... I let them be, identify with them sometimes... but when I get aware of this they're turned down... I'm not frustrated with the fact that my thoughts are stronger at the moment. Perhaps mildly frustrated and anxious.

This mood that is a little bit Dark Nightish is sometimes replaced with equanimity, stillness and a notion of &quot;no I&quot;.

I think I'm trying to find a balance between &quot;not trying&quot; and &quot;trying&quot;. The video you posted with Kenneth talking about Mahamudra and the joy of failure was very helpful.

This might also have been a little all over the place... but I feel a little all over the place now. I hope that I made myself... quite clear.

Ask anything you like. I very much appreciate your interest. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Sorry about your recent depression, make sure you deal with that in whatever way you need to while you do your meditation practice as well.

Sounds like you are still in the phase where 'trying' is part of the practice. The link I posted and more advanced practices where you completely let go come later, typically. Noting is highly effective for keeping you on track at this stage and it's my recommendation without knowing much more about your practice. It is also great to report on what actual phenomenon you are feeling in your log so people can help see where you are in more detail.

Tjidevippen Viktor och välkommen!

First I agree with Russell to take care of the depression separately from your meditation practice, people here are yogis, not doctors (most of us...).

Then two months is not a very long time to practice and if you have learned a solid technique at Goenka it is probably valuable to keep using that. Then you know what you are doing.
Noting is also very effective and to add that to your skills can be a good idea.

There are periods where &quot;just sitting&quot; and &quot;doing nothing&quot; is the right thing to do.
But it can also be a trap and lead to weak practice if the time is not right.
I can't decide what is best for you right now but using a good technique is never wrong.

Good luck with your practice!

Ok, after reading through my two first entries I realized that I was a little too intellectual about it all... I will now just note the actual phenomenon during meditation as Russell wrote. So - I'm at a point where I feel that I have to submit to ONE teaching, after having jumped around for a while. I've decided to go for Zen.

Zazen 15 april 10 pm - 11 pm:
Sat with eyes open counting my breaths. Slided into thoughts every now and then. Came back to counting. Sometimes with great focus for about a minute or so. Trying to place my focus in my belly, around the belly-button which sometimes succeeded. The focus naturally lands in solar plexus though, getting cold sensations there that I can even feel now after the meditation. Focusing and noticing this coldness makes me tranquil. The wall that I was focusing on during meditation started flickering now and then... at the longest for about 10-20 seconds I think.

By the way, does it matter what technique I use here? Is this forum for one technique only?

Zazen 16 april 10 am - 11 am:
Eyes open. Counting. Pretty much the same things going on - thoughts interrupt the counting. Sometimes there is both counting and thoughts, the counting more feeble and low-powered in the background... the thoughts higher. The wall I'm focusing on did a lot of flickering. At one moment I felt sucked back for about two seconds. It's hard to explain it better than that. I'm having a hard time finding a good pace for my counting and breathing... counting every breath feels a bit stressful... counting only the inhale makes it easier to get lost in thought.

Edit: I feel like I have three &quot;areas&quot; of focus that are separated from eachother, but that I somehow need to merge... it's solar plexus and the coolness in that part, it's my breathing, and it's my vision being focused on the wall.

At the moment I'm trying to skip intellectually trying to place myself on any map... but any thought is welcome from you.

Zazen is nice!

You can try this sitting report template recommended by Kenneth.
It is popular and makes it easier to follow and compare notes.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=" kennethfolkdharma.com/forums/topic/template-for-practice-log/ "> kennethfolkdharma.com/forums/top ... ctice-log/

Regarding the three areas of focus:
For a starter you can try to keep the focus on just one of them without trying to merge them.
(In my own case it is the breath and the visual field that can take over the main focus.)

Thank you very much. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

And yes, it feels natural put most of the focus in the visual field and in the breath. Although, I just read instructions about putting your focus in your lower belly and making it correspond with your breath - as you inhale the lower part of the belly expands and as you exhale it contracts. Will try to practice this focus.

Ok, so my feeling that stream entry is close is [b:23zjsbdk]totally gone[/b:23zjsbdk]... which is nice in a way. Now I will just use this log to note the phenomenon and difficulties that arise during my practice, like Russell said. And I will try to become more active logging my sessions.

I met on Skype with Antero today and we decided that I maintain my noting practice, noting bodily sensations for 15 minutes, feeling tones for 15 minutes, mind states for 15 minutes and thoughts the last 15 minutes.

[b:ldg31jup]Date[/b:ldg31jup]: 7 maj
[b:ldg31jup]Length of Sit:[/b:ldg31jup] 1 h
[b:ldg31jup]Where/Posture:[/b:ldg31jup] 30 min burmese, 30 min seiza
[b:ldg31jup]General Thoughts/Reflections:
[/b:ldg31jup]I was doing the sensations-feeling tones-mind states-thought-practice. Noting bodily sensations worked quite well, doing it in a low pace, as I remember it now there wasnt much disturbing thoughts in the beginning. After a while I had intense pain in some parts (due to other reasons than my sitting posture)... I know that this pain isn't dangerous in any way, so I kept sitting... but I could almost only focus on the pain.

As I came to feeling tones I almost only noted &quot;unpleasant&quot; for 15 minutes as this pain kept being pretty intense... it dropped from time to time and then I noted &quot;pleasant&quot; or &quot;neutral&quot; ... at this time I simultaneously had a lot of thoughts, every now and then taking over so I forgot to keep up the noting practice. Mostly &quot;planning thoughts&quot; and &quot;rehearsing thoughts&quot; (rehearsing what to write here, what to tell my assistant teacher and so on).

As I came to mind states I changed to kneeling position, started out with a very focused and calm mind, I put my focus in the darkness (from my eyes being closed) ... and noted &quot;calm&quot;, &quot;still&quot;, &quot;focused&quot; ... after a while thoughts started to interrupt, and I then noted &quot;absent-minded&quot;, &quot;unfocused&quot; ... from time to time the pain came back pretty intensely, as I reacted to this by grimacing with my face I noted &quot;reaction&quot; as a mind state... I also noted some bodily mind states as anxiety (in the chest) or irritation ...

As I came to thoughts I tried to remain free from thoughts as long as possible, keeping my attention in the head... I tried to catch thoughts before they were formed... succeeded sometimes, sometimes I got caught up... then noting &quot;planning thoughts&quot; ... a lot of thoughts about cooking dinner the last ten minutes, also a lot of rehearsing thoughts for this entry.

Nice journal entry, Viktor!

If you encounter some really sticky phenomena like itching or pain that seems to fill your entire experience, it is ok to take it as a sole object. Don’t take for granted that it is one solid and unchanging lump of unpleasantness. Start observing it without preconceptions and try to see how many shades of pain can you find. Where are the borders of the sensations and do they stay put or move around? If you allow the sensation to fill your entire horizon, can you find any subcomponents that make the actual sensation? How would you describe those underlying sensations? Are all of them unpleasant? If you increase the precision of your investigation, what is the smallest ‘pixel’ of any given sensation? What happens to your mind states if you continue to investigate this way? Does your suffering, discomfort and aversion increase, decrease or stay the same?

Keep up the good work!

Ok, I will try to keep all this in mind. Yes, thank you. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Note: Another thing I'm a little confused about - as it is now I do my noting on the exhale breath... it's a good pace for me now. What I have noticed is that I'm trying to find the sensation to note already when I am inhaling, to be sure to have something to note when I exhale. Maybe I should work on being still and not searching until I exhale and then note whatever comes up that exact moment. Not sure.

&quot;viktorvnh&quot;:14tu0oyq wrote: Ok, I will try to keep all this in mind. Yes, thank you. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Note: Another thing I'm a little confused about - as it is now I do my noting on the exhale breath... it's a good pace for me now. What I have noticed is that I'm trying to find the sensation to note already when I am inhaling, to be sure to have something to note when I exhale. Maybe I should work on being still and not searching until I exhale and then note whatever comes up that exact moment. Not sure.[/quote:14tu0oyq]

Just treat the movements and intentions of the mind like any other phenomena. If you notice that you are searching for something to note, note 'searching'. The same thing with anticipating, intending, striving or whatever your mind currently is up to.

And when you are unsure what to do, make sure to note the uncertainty <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> This is exactly the kind of mental overlay we are trying to be aware of.

Ok, yes...

Date: 8 maj
Length of Sit: 1 h
Where/Posture: 30 min burmese, 30 min seiza
General Thoughts/Reflections:

Tried to put on my recorder at this sitting... I thought it would be a good idea, since I then could say things I wanted to log out loud. I don't know if this was why, but my concentration was very low and I was very absent-minded during the whole sitting. My attention was not rooted in the body. It was like being in a long rehearsing thought. I tried to just be aware of this phenomenon... I also noted disappointment, sadness...

I get stuck noting some dominant sensations, like the pressure over my face or over my chest, or some pain... I repeatedly note &quot;pressure, pressure, pressure&quot; ... when I realize this (that I got stuck) I note &quot;disappointment&quot; and then &quot;searching&quot; as I search for other sensations...

Feeling tones... I generally note my overall feeling in the body as pleasant, neutral or unpleasant... if no intense pain or tension takes over I usually note &quot;neutral&quot; or &quot;pleasant&quot; and my focus is mainly at the chest, belly, and up to the face, during these 15 minutes (but as tension and pain takes over very often during these 15 minutes the feeling tone is very changing)... when some intense pain takes over in some part I try to practice to see the nuances of the pain, the waves it's made from.

My breath is pretty irregular during the whole sitting.

Mind states were mostly irritation, irritation, absent-minded, absent-minded, wanting to stop, wanting to stop.

I very easily got lost in thoughts, sometimes for about maybe one minute or maybe more before noticing, I then tried to go back and categorize the thoughts I had been occupied with.

The mind state I noted when the bell rang was disappointment and sadness.

Date: 11 maj
Length of Sit: 30 min
Where/Posture: 30 min
General Thoughts/Reflections:

Restlessness from the start, but I noted it out together with bodily phenomenon and gained a bit focus and equanimity. I'm watching my mother's dogs at the time being, and their barking in the yard made for further restlessness. Noted the irritation and managed to accept it quite well.

Another interesting phenomenon is that I've been starting to feel/hear this smooth noise (like a mix of radio noise and what you hear when you put your ear to a shell). Sometimes it's louder, sometimes lower, sometimes it disappears entirely. It usually comes after about 20 minutes. This noise makes it easier for me to recover focus when I've slipped into thoughts... when it's loud it's like in the background even when I'm lost in thoughts, like a reminder?

Date: 15 maj
Length of Sits: 30 min, 45 min, 1 h
General Thoughts/Reflections:

Practice is improving at the moment. The focus is deepening and the thoughts don't take over as easily. A lot of tension at the moment... sometimes during the sittings the whole body is in tension (contraction?). I let my breathing align with the tension, becoming slower and slower, heavier and heavier... it's like I'm capturing the tension with my breath, dragging it up and then releasing it getting a sensation of lightness throughout the chest and the face mainly. Then after a while a new wave of tension comes.

Then there's another sensation that I have a very hard time labeling with just &quot;physical&quot; words... it feels like confusion, frustration, irritation. I just note that out as irritation, even if I'm doing bodily sensations.

Still there's a lot of bodily phenomenon that I'm not sure how to note... which makes me frustrated, which, if I'm focused, results in that I note &quot;confusion&quot; or &quot;frustration&quot;.

My mind still wanders a lot during mind tones... I'm not sure why. Would anyone have an idea? It's like I don't know how to label my sensations. Even if they're clearly unpleasant mostly... I hesitate giving them that label. I think it takes a lot of mindfullness to practice mind tones... since my body is in constant change between neutral, pleasant, unpleasant... I have also found, I'm not sure though... still a bit unsure about this since it varies, but sometimes it feels like I can direct my sensations. If I get a hang up on &quot;unpleasant&quot; all I feel is unpleasant tension, after I while I start to notice neutral sensations instead and now everything is neutral, in this neutrality I find something pleasant and when I start noticing (and noting) that the pleasantness takes over for a while. I'm not sure if I'm directing this or if I'm following the body's flow though.

Mind states that I usually note are confusion, irritation, unmotivation, unfocus, focus, calm, enjoyment.

Noting thoughts are getting better. A lot of memories coming up. Sometimes I can dive into memories and get nostalgic feelings... that then can develop into sorrow and feeling of lack.

So, it's mostly remembering thoughts, planning thoughts and rehearsing thoughts (for the log).

Regarding feeling-tones, what I do in order to label them is deconstruct them. If a phenomena is seen as neutral, I try to investigate which aspects of it are pleasant and which unpleasant. The same happens when phenomena are broadly pleasant or unpleasant. This is also linked to Aversion, as you (and I) always have expectations on how phenomena should be (eg. slow peaceful breathing) or at least how they shouldn't be.

&quot;PabloP&quot;:2ad438xn wrote: Regarding feeling-tones, what I do in order to label them is deconstruct them. If a phenomena is seen as neutral, I try to investigate which aspects of it are pleasant and which unpleasant. The same happens when phenomena are broadly pleasant or unpleasant. This is also linked to Aversion, as you (and I) always have expectations on how phenomena should be (eg. slow peaceful breathing) or at least how they shouldn't be.[/quote:2ad438xn]

Well put, Pablo <!-- s:!: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt="" title="Exclamation" /><!-- s:!: --> There are two different processes going on. Sensations are always pleasant, neutral or unpleasant. Then we overlay them with aversion or greed, which is a different thing from the sensation itself. You can experiment it by noting feeling tones of the sensations and pairing them with your own reaction to them, that is: aversion or greed. So for example I could note an itching sensations &quot;unpleasant, aversion&quot;. Continue to note pairs feelingtone + reaction for awhile and you will see that this process is not completely straightforward, so at times you may have pleasant sensation and a reaction of aversion to it or unpleasant sensation with greed overlaid on it.

Neutral feeling tones are a bit tricky. As you really zoom into them, suddenly there are a lot fewer of them. It is almost as if neutral feeling tone is a sensation that is not yet really clearly seen.

Yes, that's true... and interesting. Today I've started to investigate unpleasantness, trying to be as objective as possible, &quot;so this is what it feels like&quot;, coming at it with the same calm as I have when I investigate pleasant sensations. I try to investigate mind states in the same way, like restlessness and so on, instead of identifying with the aversion to meditation I try to be interested in what the mind state is made up of, bodily sensations, thoughts and so on. This way I can take a small step back... watch it from a distance.

Yes, thanks for the response. I'll definitely try noting pairs... seems helpful. Today I've been investigating my own reactions a lot... or rather, I've tried to be intrigued by mind states like &quot;aversion to meditation&quot;, &quot;restlessness&quot; and so on - taking a step back, investigating them objectively, &quot;so this is what restlessness feels like&quot;.

Edit: woops, double-post, I thought the first one disappeared. Nevermind.

Will also be interesting trying to zoom into unpleasant and unpleasant sensations and see if they also contain some pleasantness/unpleasantness.

&quot;viktorvnh&quot;:33p0de2v wrote: I've tried to be intrigued by mind states like &quot;aversion to meditation&quot;, &quot;restlessness&quot; and so on - taking a step back, investigating them objectively, &quot;so this is what restlessness feels like&quot;.
[/quote:33p0de2v]

Yes, that is the way to do it! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Date: 15 maj
Length of Sits: 1 h
General Thoughts/Reflections:
During this sitting another practice took form... I put all my focus on my reacting rather than the sensations and noted &quot;aversion&quot; or &quot;craving&quot;. I have a lot of tension going right now, and I noticed that when I put my attention on the reaction, trying to beware of the aversion, I set the tension free and turned into a flow. Sometimes the tension was all to intense to accept though. From time to time I noted from the four foundations but mostly I just noted &quot;aversion&quot; or &quot;craving&quot;.

With this change of practice I also noted fear for breaking with the four foundations-practice.

About noting thoughts: when I decide to note thoughts, when I do it intently, I don't seem to have to note them, I just go into a flow of memories, from time to time thinking &quot;remembering&quot; to regain consciousness of what I'm doing. From time to time the memories stop as I get absorbed in rehearsing or planning thoughts, I then note &quot;rehearsing&quot; or &quot;planning&quot; and then try to access the memory flow again.