Post-Awakening Integration:BATGAP Panel Discussion

every3rdthought wrote: Interesting, coincidentally my friend just published an article about this - where she says, and as I understand it, the latest findings are that there's not such a thing as right-brain or left-brain 'dominance' (but of course, I'm not a neuroscientist!)

Thanks for sharing the article. While I wasn't quite pointing to the more pop-culture driven notion of left/right brain dominance (and therefore could have chosen a more appropriate term), I see how such an understanding of the brain is rather simplistic from a neuroscientific point of view.

I would like to point out that this article was based on only one study, under rather narrow parameters. It's hard to draw firm conclusions without a much more data.

What I was pointing at, which I still find valid, is that when we engage in activities, the neural networks associated with that activity can go through all kinds of changes. The converse is also true: when activities are not performed, some areas are less developed than they would be in those who perform the activities. What we do can increase the number of neurons, synapses, and other brain "stuff" (I'm not a neuroscientist either!) that makes those processes easier to access. This happens as much with learning to play the guitar as it does learning to practice focused awareness.

The brain functions better when its functions are well exercised and integrated; that seems clear to me. And that's what I was pointing to. Perhaps I should have pointed more to the developed/under-developed concept than one of "dominance."

Chris Marti wrote: Jackson, the idea that our brains change in response to stimuli and what we then do is called neuroplasticity, right? Neuroplasticity is a major finding of neuroscience and is being leveraged by a lot of people, including some start-up companies founded by prominent Buddhists and neuroscientists. The website called Lumosity is based on this, for example.

Yes, exactly.

Jackson wrote:

Chris Marti wrote: Jackson, the idea that our brains change in response to stimuli and what we then do is called neuroplasticity, right? Neuroplasticity is a major finding of neuroscience and is being leveraged by a lot of people, including some start-up companies founded by prominent Buddhists and neuroscientists. The website called Lumosity is based on this, for example.

Yes, exactly.

I know they used to think the brain was kind of a fixed unchanging lump, but how did they explain memory, learning, recuperation from brain injury etc in those days?

Ona, that's a really, really good question. I wish I knew the answer. Seems like common sense that the brain can continue to change to some degree or another.

I remember from gradeschool that we are born with a fixed number of brain cells that cannot grow back if damaged, and the general idea that as one aged it became harder and harder to learn anything because the brain sort of fixed the way it was after a certain learning curve as a child. But that was probably not what actual scientists would say, just a dumbed down version for school kids.

Ona Kiser wrote: I remember from gradeschool that we are born with a fixed number of brain cells that cannot grow back if damaged, and the general idea that as one aged it became harder and harder to learn anything because the brain sort of fixed the way it was after a certain learning curve as a child. But that was probably not what actual scientists would say, just a dumbed down version for school kids.

You know, I don't think it would be a stretch to say that many scientists believed just as you were taught. Brain science is still in its early stages; some even say it's in its "infancy." What we know pales in comparison to what we don't know. Still, the findings are incredible so far, and it's easy to get carried away with the information and build models that will probably NOT be all that valid in a few years.

It's an exciting time

Yeah I tended to think that the whole 'brain that changes itself' thing was a rebranding rather than a discovery - a rebranding which seemed to work successfully, if sales of Doidge's book of that title (when I was working in bookshops) were anything to go by!

every3rdthought wrote: Yeah I tended to think that the whole 'brain that changes itself' thing was a rebranding rather than a discovery - a rebranding which seemed to work successfully, if sales of Doidge's book of that title (when I was working in bookshops) were anything to go by!

Lol. My husband was carrying around a new book called "Mindfulness" the other day. When I teased him for being trendy he said it was not really about that, but an interesting and in-depth study of the suttas and Theravada tradition, by Joseph Goldstein. I said "the editor probably made him call it that then, just to boost sales."

I could often stand a bit more 'mindemptiness'

Talk about re-branding: "hypervigilance" --> "fast noting"

Okay, I got through the discussion. A couple of things:

I was somewhat horrified by what the woman Jac said about whatever it is you'd like to do to improve yourself, take care of your body and whatnot, you'd better do it before awakening because afterwards you won't have the motivation. I'm right now on a campaign to lose weight. My motivation is that I'd like to be around and healthy for my young son to grow up, and I'd like him to be able to have a mother in his world as an adult for awhile.

Next: there was a lot about how it's good not to awaken too fast or too early, to have a good foundation of one's self before coming to the realization that it's all constructed. I guess I can go along with that, but what about all these younger people who are waking up and doing just fine? Maybe they were really together to start with, hm? In any case, I feel no desire to go back into therapy. I did a lot and it was valuable. Maybe I 'll feel differently about it in awhile, who knows?

Finally, I looked up their websites and all three of them had major, spectacular openings. On a hangout last week Rowan told me jokingly that my awakening experience was some of the most disappointing enlightenment porn he'd ever read. Yeah, I know. It's no big deal. So what are all these massive openings these three are running on about? Is that something I have to look forward to?

Of course this response seems to be all about me, but really it's all about me being presumably recently awake, and what that means.

One of the guys in my meditation group, on his own awakening: "I find myself so... underwhelming."

More or less. Maybe I should have done a different practice, so there'd be a lot more drama, huh? Then again, maybe this will have to do. I had my most amazingest Big Wow years ago. I'm fine with that.

Laurel Carrington wrote: On a hangout last week Rowan told me jokingly that my awakening experience was some of the most disappointing enlightenment porn he'd ever read.

LOL, he didn't read mine!!