Loud noise during concentration meditation

Hi Chris & Ona,

Thanks for your advice on dealing with noise and sounds. It's appreciated.

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Just to clarify my earlier thoughts on the issue of noise: as I see it there are two potential problems with noise, in relation to developing samatha/concentration (outside jhana + vipassana practices) - (1) as a distraction to meditation practice, and (2) a potential to unbalance the energy system (chakras).

Noisy neighbours (and their children)

As far as (1) is concerned, I am pleased to read Ona's account of having lots of noise around her and yet being able to ignore it while meditating. The scenario I'm reminded of is people who live next to a trainline eventually cease to be bothered about it and tune-it-out completely. I was very pleased last year to find I didn't need the tranquility of a retreat centre to make progress! Yes, at first I was more than a little frustrated at the amount of noise that was generated in this little 'quiet' village where I now live; but this fell away when I realised I could ignore most of it. In fact I started to feel it was actually beneficial in that I HAD to ignore it and pull my attention away from the kids playing outside, continuously bringing it back to the breath, therefore strengthening mindfulness.

Noise as a potential to unbalance the energy system (chakras)

This suggestion (2), comes from my retreat teacher, who had a certain amount of credibility since he was warning us of this danger because of his own experience and it happened while he was on 3 year retreat with the founder of the New Kadampa Tradition (and presumable the diagnosis came from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso). It is not 'noise' in general that he says is a problem, but a load BANG! for instance. I recollect he told us it was a door near him which had been caught by the wind and slammed shut while he was in deep concentration. He also said it is not necessarily the loudness of the sound, since a plane overhead will slowly get louder and our system can cope. It is the sudden and unexpected loud noise that can be the problem - especially if close. This is the reason I sometimes adorn my ear defenders, not to drown out 'sound' in general but to keep me safe from the potential of a BANG!

I'm wondering if anyone else has had this warning from any other teachers or has had any experience that may verify, or nullify, this problem (2)?

Chris Marti wrote: The point of mediation, ultimately, is to help us to be present with our experience, from which we do not get to pick and choose this part or that part.

Thanks Chris. I think "The point of mediation" maybe depends upon what one is trying to do/attain with the meditation practice? IMHO
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What I like about this forum and the others I've been to lately is no-one seems to think retreat conditions are valid. Buddha is reported to say a dedicated practitioner should seek solitude in the forest to practice, yet in the 21st century people are gaining insights (and arahatship) while being told to seek out noisy places to meditate. Which is refreshing and welcome: even if I do feel I need a bit more convincing of the validity of this as a concentration practice, but certainly something to investigate.

I was meditating the other night and getting fairly concentrated when the small oil radiator right next to me went PING! I'm delighted to say, after a minute of disruption to my concentration I was back on track with no lasting disturbance to my energy system. However, there WAS a big energy WHOOSH that went through my body when the ping happened. I also checked and made sure I relaxed any potential tension I felt after the whoosh. Like you say, this is natural and the energy system did cope well. But it wasn't that loud.

My question is, is there a threshold where a sound CAN mess up a chakra?
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Chris Marti wrote: BTW - I've never been warned away from noises, loud or otherwise, during mediation practice. I have several times been encouraged to practice in noisy places!

Chris, I appreciate your answer that none of your teachers has mentioned it, so maybe the answer is "No"?

Here's my take on it. Bear with me.

When I practiced Santeria, which I did for six years, three as an initiated priestess, a fundamental part of that tradition was a belief that "spiritual negativity" or "bad spirits" could mess with one. To prevent this, one did rituals to clean oneself after being in places where these energies were believed to be running loose - hospitals, cemeteries, parties, bars, scenes of accidents. We'd go to a ritual at another priests' house, and then as soon as we were on the street on the way home we'd be doing cleansing rituals just in case someone's bad energy might have stuck to us.

I say this tongue in cheek, but at the same time it has some validity. There are "negative energies" (which can be explained by various means, but for the moment I'll stick with the tradition I'm talking about). And if a person is tired, disturbed, angry, grief-stricken or otherwise vulnerable, these energies can cling to them and add to their misery.

HOWEVER. What you get in Santeria are two kinds of people. Those who tiptoe around in paranoia waving ritual objects in the air all day to ward off the infinite bad spirits that are always following them because everyone is out to get them, and those who have a normal balanced psyche and just do a bit of rote cleansing when needed. Because if a person is generally stable and psychologically normal, they aren't really very susceptible to this stuff.

So sometimes these warnings are a matter of degree. When I am deep in concentration and a sudden loud noise occurs, I startle. It's a body reflex. Then I go back to meditating. Now perhaps if I were an extremely finely tuned Taoist wizard, who maintained my energy body is a state of highest refinement, every little noise would damage my chakras. But 99% of us are more like a plunky old piano in grandma's basement. There ain't enough refinement in there to worry about the tuning. Just play the damn thing.

And finally, the energy body is like the immune system - it is self-regulating, self-balancing, and self-correcting. If you have an energy imbalance it will sort itself out. If you are doing energy work, it will probably come out in kriyas. A person who has a chronic super-delicate really imbalanced system (which I would see manifesting in chronic illness, psychological problems, etc.) might benefit from a very regulated and carefully monitored practice. Your average dude should probably do more, not less, and get some progress made rather than worry he might break a chakra. If you do too much, you'll know, and you can take a break and let things correct themselves or go get some accupuncture.

That's my two cents.

Hi Chris and Ona. I really appreciate your continued support of my efforts to get to the bottom of this possible issue I've been warned about by a highly regarded monk and retreat master. I feel more open to the possibility his (and his guru's) assessment of the cause-and-effect regarding his 6 years out from being able to meditate was missplaced.
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LUNG
In Tibetan Buddhism an energy/chakra imbalance is called "lung" (pronounced "loong"). Here is an extract from the Mandala Magazine which explains it. I'm not saying anyone should believe in any of this, but it may be useful if you come across someone who has come from a Tibetan tradition. Lung The Meditators Disease (pdf)

I'm starting to be more inclined to believe the Tibetan MAP with regard to the chakras etc should be seen in the same vain as any other tradition's MAP - to some extent a scripted route that takes students somewhere (either a state or enlightenment), but with it's own quirks.

I'm a little torn between my initial connection with chakras (when I learned about spiritual healing) and decided "even if these things do not exist, since it is a useful system I'll decide to believe in them (and thereby create them) for myself"; and the notion of "If I choose to not believe, then I can not be harmed". The latter I feel to be a bit dumb; yet I do not want to keep a belief in the possibility of being harmed when only that belief can manifest it.

I'll contemplate and see how I feel about it in a couple of days.
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Chris wrote:

I can accept this only if it is in the very short term and one is trying to achieve some very specific state.

Agreed, and in my view (at the moment) attaining samadhi is a short-term goal (in order to use samatha in a long term effort to attain paths).

But states are not the ultimate objective of practice.

Agreed.

Otherwise and in general the point of mediation is to be present as much as possible, right here, right now, and to see things as they are sans the mind's preferences, filters, desires and loathings.

Agree with your premis here too, on the basis that I cannot argue the Tibetan meditations on emptiness, tantric mandalas, mahamudra, or anything else will definitely lead one to enlightenment, or will zen meditations for that matter, so I cannot argue that your specific view on the general point of meditation is incorrect. At my present level of knowledge/insight/experience I just do not know.

I can see it works for you though, and maybe it will work for me also.

Sudden loud noises sometimes helps my meditation. A radiator cracks. A train rushes by. All of a sudden I am right there. There is something called the startle reflex that cuts all the crap out of my mind. Of course, other times I am right there anyway and I don't react. The noise arises and passes away without my adding anything.

In my Zen days, before answering a koan before the Zen Master, we would loudly hit the floor and then answer. It seemed to clear the mind of any preconceptions.

Hey Colin

I have some experience (not remotely as extensive as yours) with some very different Tibetan lineages than NKT. In these lineages a sharp loud sound is generally considered a great opportunity. My experience is that such a startle can induce a flash of openness that is very clean if we kind of train ourselves to relax into the startle.

These lineages also tend to regard lung disorders (lung is a neutral term in these systems, it just means energy, as in prana or chi) are generally induced-- when they are practice induced-- by a certain approach to practice, pushing too hard, not respecting our body and energy systems' natural limits. This attitude reflects a sort of inner schism between a do-er and the energy system. In other words, doing forceful practice from the point of view of 'ego' is a bad idea If one identifies as a 'practitioner' who is doing practice, these approaches seem to recommend a more gentle approach emphasizing self-respect for one's limits.

Thanks jake

What you're saying really makes sense. I suspect my teacher really wanted to progress so much that he may have been trying too hard, thereby creating the conditions for lung when that door slammed shut near him; as he may have tightened up in response.

It also makes sense that not identifying as the doer, but instead allowing the experience to just 'be' can allow the energy to flow.

I have noticed, while I've been at my current location and being startled by various noises, that I'm being less fearful of and less reactive to the louder noises that make my system jolt. Thus I'm more relaxed and less reactive to them.

I've just indicated in my practice log I may have induced a little bit of lung this week (it seems to be mending now though), so maybe I also need to take a more gentle approach.