Need help dealing with dark night

So.. a little bit of history about my situation.. I stumbled upon Dan Ingram's MCTB somewhere around 2008, and it had a profound effect on me. Soon I crossed the A/P event, and since then, let's say I've had the "spiritual itch". I didn't practice regularly, but read lots of books/browsed web sites relating to Buddhism and new age stuff.

I'd say I always was a rather shy person, and after A&P I've had mild/moderate ( sometimes intense) anxiety attacks ( moderate and intense attacks were very rare, occurred only when I was put into stressful situations). But after A&P my default emotional state was.. say.. a very dull sadness in the background. Not quite depression, but still less than optimal. I'd be lying if I say it didn't have an effect on my life, but i managed to graduate, but I there was a noticeable drop of motivation to do anything afterwards. It wasn't ideal, but.. manageable with lifestyle changes.

I started to practice again a couple of days back ( 20 mts sessions) and boy it came back with a vengeance. It wasn't sadness this time, but it was more of.. insomnia. I haven't been sleeping well for a couple of days. It's quite strange, in a sense I wasn't tired after only getting a couple of hours of sleep, but there is a mild/moderate sense of tiredness.


I will be going through some pretty big lifestyle adjustments in the near future. That stress plus all this unpleasantness I am experiencing right now prompted me to post this. I know it sounds very self absorbed, sorry.

I'm at the stage of about to roll the mat and go home, seriously considering giving up this whole thing.

My technique is vipassana after 5-10 mts of breath counting for concentration.

How do you deal with it and live a normal hectic life? Please let me know of some tips and tricks, and milder approaches ( if there are) for developing insight.

The "dark night" periods are natural phases of development in meditation. Once you have had an A&P, the process starts ticking along and you can either try to ignore it (which will not work - it will just grind along under the surface until you start a regular practice) or you can be sensible and start a regular committed practice - sounds like you decided to do that. Once you have the spiritual itch I think you really need to just deal with it. It won't go away unless you do. Stick it out. We've all done it. You can survive it.

The key things to keep in mind are:

-the unpleasant sensations, frustration, sleep disturbances, itching, twitching, or whatever else is going on are completely normal and okay.
-each person's process is unique - some will be very quiet and subtle, others will be very big and noisy.
-you aren't in charge of what presents itself in your experience. but you are in charge of finding the patience, courage, and commitment to embrace your own experience with both arms and your whole heart and do your very best to apply a relevant meditation technique every day.
-the most progress is made during these more difficult periods, not during the times that feel blissy and relaxing
-every one of us has been through the same thing - it will pass, in its own time. and it will come and go again over and over in the future, for a while. there will come a time when you begin to find it interesting even when it's difficult, rather than wanting to run away from it.
-sticking it out through the difficulties is absolutely worth it

As to specific approaches, having really clear stuff coming up (unpleasant stuff) is a great opportunity to apply techniques like noting. This is probably the best technique for someone having a lot of difficult stuff who is a relative beginner, in my opinion. There are various systems for noting, but a simple way is to get settled by watching the breath (as you already do) and then begin naming the sensations and thoughts that come and go during the 20-30 minutes of sitting. Name the things as if they are birds coming and going at a bird feeder. Sparrow. Hawk. Goldfinch. Except in this case: worry. itch. worry. sound. frustration. joy. frustration. noise. wind. itch. etc. Some people use very detailed wording (angry thought. planning thought. memory thought.). Start by just naming the most predominant thing you sense each time you naturally exhale. You can increase the frequency of the noting as you learn to do it (it takes a few days, I found, to get used to the technique).

Does that help? Ask away if you have more questions or if that doesn't seem useful.

Thanks Ona,

you aren't in charge of what presents itself in your experience. but you are in charge of finding the patience, courage, and commitment to embrace your own experience with both arms and your whole heart and do your very best to apply a relevant meditation technique every day

Looks like I was looking for an easy way out, huh? I think this is relevant to life itself, not only just dark night stuff.

You can increase the frequency of the noting as you learn to do it (it takes a few days, I found, to get used to the technique).

I find that verbal noting is a bit of a hindrance. I tend to ruminate on which words describe the flavor of the sensation. Right now I just pay attention to how sensations appear, do their thing and just disappear. Locking my concentration on that "pulsing sensation" if you will. I can definitely detect a pulsing sensation in bodily sensations, but only rarely in sounds. What's your opinion?

Also, I've noticed a pendulum like swinging sensation in my solar plexus area, most of the time when I sit down to meditate. Sometimes my whole upper body wobbles back and forth.

Yes, it does seem very relevant to life in general! Seems so to me. Not always what one wants to hear.

If you feel you are keeping your attention on sensations as they arise and pass doing your current style, then do that. Using words out loud helps keep ones mind from wandering, for example, so it is a handy way to start. But it sounds like you already have some experience paying attention to phenomena and maintaining focus. I wouldn't try to make any sensations be different than they are. Don't try to make sounds, for example, pulse or vibrate or anything. You don't want to try to change what is being experienced, simply notice how it already is. Even a large sound (someone dropping something, a passing car) has a beginning and an end already. Within the larger sound you may or may not notice the constituent parts of the sound or the sensation of it hitting the eardrum (or it make be so simple and short that it's not possible to notice more detail). Just notice at the level that is noticeable.

The movements in the body like swaying and shaking are called kriyas and are normal. Just ignore. They can be mild or strong at various times (and depending on the individual), but are not harmful. It's some sort of side-effect of meditation. I like the explanation that one can think of them as the energy channels of the body opening up and cleaning themselves out. It will take care of itself. If you are inclined, you can train in a practice like tai chi, qi gong or kundalini yoga to learn to adjust and manage the energy flow in your body. But otherwise just apply your noticing to that as just another set of sensations to watch coming and going.

Does that help?

Nis wrote: I find that verbal noting is a bit of a hindrance. I tend to ruminate on which words describe the flavor of the sensation. Right now I just pay attention to how sensations appear, do their thing and just disappear. Locking my concentration on that "pulsing sensation" if you will. I can definitely detect a pulsing sensation in bodily sensations, but only rarely in sounds. What's your opinion?

Also, I've noticed a pendulum like swinging sensation in my solar plexus area, most of the time when I sit down to meditate. Sometimes my whole upper body wobbles back and forth.

Nis, practice tends to arouse lots of energy in the body and mind. My understanding is that energy imbalances are responsible for a lot of the dark night suffering people experience. Some of this is unavoidable, but there are ways to help things along.

It sounds like you're arousing lots of energy (e.g. concentrating/focusing hard), and keeping your attention confined to small areas at a time. Is that right? If so, that can be like trying to cram the water from an Olympic-sized swimming pool into a thimble. In other words, your mind is bigger than your practice. Focusing to much on pulsating vibrations (or trying to hard to see pulsations, rather than allowing the noticing to happen more naturally and gradually) is not an optimal approach for getting through a DN phase, in my opinion. I think it's better to expand your awareness to include other types of phenomena. This is one reason why Mahasi-style noting works well, and tends to be a quicker path than Goenka-style body scanning. When you include mind objects, and also allow the mind to note whatever is more prominent in consciousness, the mind stays more expanded and the energy is less of a problem. Make sense?

If you're going to keep you attention firmly grounded in your body sensations, expand your consciousness to include body sensations all over your body. Breath in and out of every pore of your skin simultaneously. Really feel and picture this. But breathe naturally! Don't force deep, strong, heavy breathing, as this will only throw you off balance even more at this point.

It's good to practice shorter sessions if possible. There's no need to try and push the mind much further than it can go. That would be like expecting a toddler to sit still for 3 hours at a formal dinner; everyone ends up disappointed Ona's advice to keep a steady practice is a good one, but do your best to set appropriate goals.

Most importantly, relax!!! Allow phenomena to arise and pass in awareness as they will. You don't have to go looking for anything. As the mind learns to notice arising and passing in a relaxed way, concentration will deepen in a more balanced way, and more phenomena will become available to witness. The DN is not the time to PUSH PUSH PUSH. It's okay if your mind wanders. Just bring it back gently.

And, take walks outside often. The mind naturally expands when one goes outdoors, because there is so much to take in.

Best of luck, and practice well!

It sounds like you're arousing lots of energy (e.g. concentrating/focusing hard), and keeping your attention confined to small areas at a time. Is that right? If so, that can be like trying to cram the water from an Olympic-sized swimming pool into a thimble. In other words, your mind is bigger than your practice. Focusing to much on pulsating vibrations (or trying to hard to see pulsations, rather than allowing the noticing to happen more naturally and gradually) is not an optimal approach for getting through a DN phase, in my opinion. I think it's better to expand your awareness to include other types of phenomena. This is one reason why Mahasi-style noting works well, and tends to be a quicker path than Goenka-style body scanning. When you include mind objects, and also allow the mind to note whatever is more prominent in consciousness, the mind stays more expanded and the energy is less of a problem. Make sense?

I think your diagnosis is quite accurate. It's just that I tried to get a feeling on rising and passing away of phenomena, and to notice the wave like quality, hoping it would deepen my insights. I guess that's something that will happen naturally rather than by will. I will take your advice of allowing mind to note whatever is more prominent at the moment.

Mahasi style is labeling phenomena, right?

It's good to practice shorter sessions if possible. There's no need to try and push the mind much further than it can go.

How short are short sessions? My sessions are already short, 20mts. will 15 do?

Most importantly, relax!!! Allow phenomena to arise and pass in awareness as they will. You don't have to go looking for anything. As the mind learns to notice arising and passing in a relaxed way, concentration will deepen in a more balanced way, and more phenomena will become available to witness. The DN is not the time to PUSH PUSH PUSH. It's okay if your mind wanders. Just bring it back gently.

Thanks

Nis wrote: I think your diagnosis is quite accurate. It's just that I tried to get a feeling on rising and passing away of phenomena, and to notice the wave like quality, hoping it would deepen my insights. I guess that's something that will happen naturally rather than by will. I will take your advice of allowing mind to note whatever is more prominent at the moment.

I can't fault you for trying to just dive in and notice impermanence. The problem is that sometimes when we try hard to see something, we end up fabricating an experience instead of seeing things in a naturally arising sort of way. This gets much easier to see as you continue to practice well.

Nis wrote: Mahasi style is labeling phenomena, right?

Basically, yes. Have you read Mahasi's book Practical Insight Meditation? It's available in full at Google Books . I recommend that you become familiar with the method as written in this manual, because it can be very effective. Just remember that you don't have to go all hardcore with the practice in order for it to work. Take your time, and things will work out better in the long run.

The nice thing about the Mahasi method is that it starts with something very easy to find and track: the rise and fall of your abdomen as you breath. As you not rising, stopping, falling, stopping, etc., your mind tunes into arising and passing at levels that are more and more subtle. That's how it worked for me. The insights of the vipassana stages seem to jump out at you. They are not a priori truths you are supposed to look for, per se. As you do the method and keep the major points of the View in mind, progress will occur.

Nis wrote: How short are short sessions? My sessions are already short, 20mts. will 15 do?

20 is good for now, but don't hesitate to practice for shorter periods as they are made available to you throughout the day.

Hello Nic

Thank you for sharing. I got a lot from this discussion.

I was wondering how you have progressed since you posted on this topic 5 months ago?
How did using the advice given here pan out for you?

AOP, thanks for resurrecting this, it's a good one. ~Mark