what's the relationship between practice...and awakening???
14 years 9 months ago #1936
by Ona Kiser
Chris said: "Since you raised the subject, Ona, maybe you should start a topic on
the relationship between practice technique, intent, insight and
awakening. I think it's very complicated and worthy of more commentary.
And I'm sure it'll require a lot of definitions
For example -
do people who practice meditation wake up with more frequency than
those who don't practice? Is there any way to know?"
Chris, is there any way to know? who knows? Not I. On the other hand, if practice didn't have some relation, there wouldn't be a billion methods of practice in cultures all around the world, would there? Or would there?
It has some kind of impact, surely. But can I know? Maybe I would have been walking to the grocery store one day and had an awakening without having had any intent or interest or even knowledge of it. It certainly happens occasionally, I've heard.
Somehow in my own practice it seems the process of meditation acted a bit like a meat grinder, breaking down everything I thought I knew and thought I understood, in particular my constant desire to separate things into categories (special, not special; sacred, not sacred; pleasant, unpleasant; productive, unproductive; etc etc); my belief that I was doing something, that effort made all the difference, that I had any say in anything that happened to me. It wasn't about teaching me not to do this or that, or learning skills, but rather just this gradual unstoppable undermining (in a very painful way) of everything I held onto (and often I didn't even know I was holding on to a thing until it vanished). Taking away everything, piece by piece, disassembling the house, until even the floor was gone and I finally gave up trying to find something to hold on to anymore.
(That sounds rather agonized, perhaps, but it was for me, in many ways.)
But in terms of specific techniques and their efficacy, that too is a bit mysterious, and I suspect it is a little different for each person, depending on their hangups and background and personality. Noting practice seemed quite effective for me in getting the meat grinder into high gear. Just sitting practice seemed to "work" powerfully later. The various pointers I got later still were almost more like nudges. Usually to do with paying attention to the thing I was least comfortable with. Wherever I was having fear or confusion, that needed to be sat with, not fought with.
the relationship between practice technique, intent, insight and
awakening. I think it's very complicated and worthy of more commentary.
And I'm sure it'll require a lot of definitions
For example -do people who practice meditation wake up with more frequency than
those who don't practice? Is there any way to know?"
Chris, is there any way to know? who knows? Not I. On the other hand, if practice didn't have some relation, there wouldn't be a billion methods of practice in cultures all around the world, would there? Or would there?
It has some kind of impact, surely. But can I know? Maybe I would have been walking to the grocery store one day and had an awakening without having had any intent or interest or even knowledge of it. It certainly happens occasionally, I've heard.
Somehow in my own practice it seems the process of meditation acted a bit like a meat grinder, breaking down everything I thought I knew and thought I understood, in particular my constant desire to separate things into categories (special, not special; sacred, not sacred; pleasant, unpleasant; productive, unproductive; etc etc); my belief that I was doing something, that effort made all the difference, that I had any say in anything that happened to me. It wasn't about teaching me not to do this or that, or learning skills, but rather just this gradual unstoppable undermining (in a very painful way) of everything I held onto (and often I didn't even know I was holding on to a thing until it vanished). Taking away everything, piece by piece, disassembling the house, until even the floor was gone and I finally gave up trying to find something to hold on to anymore.
(That sounds rather agonized, perhaps, but it was for me, in many ways.)
But in terms of specific techniques and their efficacy, that too is a bit mysterious, and I suspect it is a little different for each person, depending on their hangups and background and personality. Noting practice seemed quite effective for me in getting the meat grinder into high gear. Just sitting practice seemed to "work" powerfully later. The various pointers I got later still were almost more like nudges. Usually to do with paying attention to the thing I was least comfortable with. Wherever I was having fear or confusion, that needed to be sat with, not fought with.