AugustLeo's Commentary

Atmananda (Krishna Menon)

For those interested in furthering their Understanding of the Direct Path, I'd like to point out the teachings of Atmananda ((Krishna Menon). Atmananda was a lesser known contemporary of Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta. His teachings are noteworthy because he taught the systematic deconstruction of the illusions that are superimposed upon direct experience. Upon successful deconstruction of these illusory superimpositions, all that is left is pure non-dual awareness.

There are not many references available about Atmananda's teachings. Those in Atmananda's lineage include John Levy, Jean Klein, Francis Lucille, Dr. Greg Goode, and Rupert Spira.

Both Greg and Rupert have the understanding necessary to convey Atmananda's teaching.

Rupert is in the UK and his website is www.rupertspira.com .

Greg is very accessible and is in New York, NY, USA. His website is www.heartofnow.com .

In addition to being an accomplished student of Atmananda's (Krishna Menon) Advaita Vedanta Direct Path, Greg is also well versed in Buddhist Emptiness Teachings and Western Philosphy as it applies to nondualism.

AugustLeo

August,

Thanks much for sharing these interesting resources with us. I look forward to taking advantage of them.
JF

August, it's good to have you back.

Hi August.

Thanks for this info. I recently got excellent word of mouth about Rupert Spira and was most impressed with what I read from him on the web. He seemed to have a very well rounded well.

Yours,
Mark

I was gratified to stumble upon Atmananda Krishna Menon's teachings because they were essentially the same Understanding I had come to independently in my own practice, but expounded upon in much greater depth and more rigorously than I have to date on my own.

Both Rupert and Greg teach from an Advaita Vedanta perspective that is congruent with Atmananda's teaching, and is easily understandable by the Westerner. I much prefer Rupert and Greg over Francis Lucille, because their material approaches the deconstruction of the illusory superimpositions on direct experience in a step by step manner.

Both Greg and Rupert have video clips available on www.youtube.com , www.conscious.tv and www.stillnessspeaks.com . If you're interested, check them out.

In addition, you can find two excellent DVDs with Rupert and one by Greg on www.stillnessspeaks.com . Both are in interview format with StillnessSpeaks host Chris Hebard.

I particularly like the DVD with Greg because it gives a useful overview of Atmananda's step-by-step deconstruction strategy. In an email to me in the last two weeks Greg mentioned that he is currently working on a detailed user manual for following Atmananda's deconstruction.

AugustLeo

For those interested in anything substantive re my practice please refer to www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/forum/66-augustleo/ (though there is not much there at the moment). You have to be a member of TheTaobums forum to read AugustLeo's Personal Forum on that site.

On the Taobums forums I asked "Is your practice goal tied to improving or lengthening your physical existence?"

Invariably the answer was "yes".

When I first started practicing as a young boy my goal was definitely tied to improving or lengthening my physical existence.

That changed for me in the last few years (46 years after starting to practice), as my perspective has changed due to my practice.

I'm not saying that improving or lengthening one's physical existence isn't a worthy goal. I'm simply asking you to question the reality of your physical existence for yourself, and practice accordingly.

Augustleo

New posts at:

www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/forum/66-augustleo/

"New posts at:

www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/forum/66-augustleo/ "

AugustLeo1, this link does not work for meeven when signed in as a member.

Eric

The link is good.

I believe you need to have at least 1 post in the Lobby to access the Personal Forums on TTB. A simple "Hi" will do.

***This is a read only thread - please do not reply.***

I've mentioned this before but it bears repeating.

Many here seem to relate their experience and understanding to some Buddhist model of enlightenment for whatever reason (familiarity, comfort, conditioning), as if that model were the quintessential model. This is particularly true of the influx of members from DhO and Buddhist Geeks.

Recently, the Actual Freedom model has been added to the mix, creating confusion rather than clarity.

No model is true or can ever point to what is true. Let models go and practice. At first practice seems to be engulfed in confusion - good. When enlightenment dawns, all that is left is Not Knowing. Reality is simply beyond words and thoughts and concepts. Reality is empty.

I was first attracted to KFDh because Kenneth was truly a pragmatic yogi, willing to push beyond the Buddhist conceptual boundaries, encompassing whatever "worked". Kenneth is still doing that. He is my friend and he has my respect. Though I must admit, I would like more detailed reports from him about his practice.

AugustLeo. 48 years and counting ...

***This is a read only thread - please do not reply.***

Enlightenment is only a concept. You were born, you'll eventually die (sooner or later), and that's the sum of the illusion.

"***This is a read only thread - please do not reply.***

Enlightenment is only a concept. You were born, you'll eventually die (sooner or later), and that's the sum of the illusion. "

AugustLeo, this is a public forum. There are no read-only threads, and anyone is welcome to reply to any other thread. If each of our members were to set up a read-only thread, it would defeat the purpose of the discussion forum, which is, after all, discussion. And since it doesn't make sense to allow everyone a read-only thread, it doesn't make sense to allow anyone a read-only thread.

For this reason, I hope you will welcome others into your thread and begin what I expect will be a fruitful discussion for everyone.

Kenneth

***This is a read only thread - please do not reply.***

Quote: "AugustLeo, this is a public forum. There are no read-only threads, and anyone is welcome to reply to any other thread. If each of our members were to set up a read-only thread, it would defeat the purpose of the discussion forum, which is, after all, discussion. And since it doesn't make sense to allow everyone a read-only thread, it doesn't make sense to allow anyone a read-only thread.

For this reason, I hope you will welcome others into your thread and begin what I expect will be a fruitful discussion for everyone.

Kenneth"

Dear Kenneth,

It's your forum and I'm willing to abide by your rules. If you say that no read-only threads are allowed, then that's fine with me.

However, in general, I won't read or reply to those who post in this thread (except for you, occasionally

If that's not acceptable, then please let me know and I will gladly remove my membership from your forum (again).

Best wishes,

Michael

Then why do you post, AugustLeo? What is the volition behind your statements? Why dont you want to interact with other yogis? Why don't you want to elaborate on what you say? Why should anyone listen to you if they cant see (through conversation and elaboration) that you know what you are talking about? Why should people pay attention if they cant interact with you? It would make it easier for us human beings with all our faults to be able to be more receptive to your wisdom, if you actually stepped down from this Read-Only thread and communicated with us as a normal human being.

What is wrong with this situation? There is something wrong with it. Last time you didnt want to communicate with anyone yet felt compelled to post declaration after declaration. What is wrong with this picture?

Sorry, but seriously, isn't getting enlightened all about being nicer to other people (I hope) at least and being able to communicate with, help and support others? Why post and then ignore people then? Sorry but Im having a hard time understanding this.

Edited to say: I'm perfectly ok with this , just making a point that I feel needs to be made. I may well be talking out my arse and making (another) mistake.

For me I began meditating using the breath as the object, I had not read anything on meditation when I started, I only took a small tid bit off the Transcendental Meditation Website.

I spent 6 months just meditating nearly every morning, concentrating on the breath as my object... usually breath counting, or simply in out breathing, constantly checking to make sure I was aware of whether it was in or out. This got me into what I now consider 1st jhana on occasion. I felt like this is the direction I wanted to go, and just kept concentrating on the breath. I felt like I was getting somewhere, but very very slowly. I had no idea what enlightenment really was, or how to get there.

After a while of breath concentration, I instinctively found the 3 Characteristics, as I observed after each of my meditations various sensations that would be prominant. I experienced some beginning energetic like stuff when observing things like sound, or the vibration in my spine after reaching first jhana.

It wasnt until I found Daniel's Book MCTB, that I immediately understood what I needed to do, what I would experience, and what strata of mind I would go through... I already recognized the 1st jhana so I knew he must be onto something.

I had my first Arising and Passing Event several months later, quite unexpectedly while laying next to my friend. I was sending Reiki into her heart area, and then a quick shift all teh sudden happened. I was looking at my hands sensations, flickering really fast, and then I noticed all the sensations that made up my reality. I was in the Alder Planetarium of sensations, and there was no Josh, no solid body or mind, just sensations. I continued to dig into this Planetarium phenomena, and then a quick flash of light while my eyes are closed, and a 4 hour long full body orgasm/ecstatic sensations running all over my body. I immediately dipped into this overwhelming sadness and began crying... cont...

cont...

But guess what, I knew what the blip was happening to me at the time, cause I had read Daniels Book, I had intellectual knowledge of the maps, the stages, the states, etc... Navigating through the dark Night only took a few weeks, and there was ABSOLUTELY no bleed through, because I knew where I was, and where I was headed... The whole thing, even the annoying sensations of anxiety and fear, was exciting!

Everyones experience is different in life... in meditation... No one gets enlightened the same way... I have found my experience is very different from anyones on this website, but there are alot of similarities. I experience pleasant sensations, unpleasant sensations, and neutral sensations... I experience various states of mind from observing the sensations. In that way I relate to alot of people on this website.

Oh and there is usually no room for keeping any type of model in my mind while doing the act of noticing...If it does it is usually obliterated in an instant by noting "wondering". I do find the maps comforting when I am not noting though

"
Dear Kenneth,

It's your forum and I'm willing to abide by your rules. If you say that no read-only threads are allowed, then that's fine with me.

However, in general, I won't read or reply to those who post in this thread (except for you, occasionally

If that's not acceptable, then please let me know and I will gladly remove my membership from your forum (again).

Best wishes,

Michael
"

With all doe respect, AugustLeo, your actions and decisions seem to arise from a very strong sense of "self". It appears to me, that while you may be a tremendous source of academic knowledge, you provide nothing more to many advanced yogis (humbly I must say I'm one of them) as you are a great preacher, but I truly question your practice and what it has done for you.

You will probably wont read this (but I know you will, as your "Self" will be itching to do so, and you still cling to such illusion quite tightly and believe it to be your reality), but I do hope you do. It's probably a good time for you, after 48 years and counting, to re-evaluate your practice. think you still have lots to learn about this journey.

Sincerely,

Jorge Freddy

I think that AugustLeo should post on this forum and should feel welcome to, so telling him about his 'Self' is probably unskillful, since (i think) these are only projections, and we have no idea what or who this man is.

It would probably be good of August, if he wishes to participate in this forum, to be open to discussion and elaboration on his view point, in order to help others understand him (if he wants to have a discussion).
August, why are you interested in posting on this forum but having no one reply to your thread?

In regards to Kenneth's quote on 'can't allow everyone a read-only thread', I think no one else here would want one. Which brings me back to my previous question, AugustLeo, why do you wish to have a read-only thread, if you dont mind me asking?

"I think that AugustLeo should post on this forum and should feel welcome to, so telling him about his 'Self' is probably unskillful, since (i think) these are only projections, and we have no idea what or who this man is.


"

I have not disagreed with AugustLeo's posting. After all, I believe all yogis should post their experiences in here, as it is what we do.
To post with such authoritarian way? I could not disagree more. I am yet to hear AugustLeo tell me about his experience. All I have read is how wrong others are and how naive most are about their practice. I would expect that from his webpage, not here.

As one realizes the delusion of self as a 4th pather (or as whatever it is what anyone may choose to call someone who has seen fully everything that is for what it really is) one gains enough discernment to realize the very fact that this "self" is nothing more than existing mental formations. So is it unskillful that I'm calling him out on holding on to his sense of "Self"? perhaps it is unskillful of me to do such thing to someone who still believes there is a "self" that it is what they are (which is the very delusion insight meditation tries to overcome). If I'm not mistaken, from the way Augustleo talks about himself, he should be way above such delusion. How good are the attainments from this practice if one continues to believe in the delusions they have shown us to be false?
Maybe his practice has not brought him such attainments, as he's quickly to dismiss anything else he has not practiced or experienced for the past 46 years as having any value. Therefore, as an advanced yogi I question the value of his postings other than what they may bring as referencing other people's works and experiences.

***This is a read only thread - please do not reply, I won't respond ***

The fascination with models of enlightenment is unending.

Why? Because there is a general heuristic in human endeavor that says "measurement=motivation".

Someone sets a standard - perhaps it's Daniel Ingram, perhaps it's Kenneth Folk, perhaps it's even AugustLeo. Ahhhh, now I can measure myself against a "real" standard." NOT.

In order to measure progress, there must be a standard by which to measure it. Hence the "enlightenment model", a model of enlightenment against which the practitioner can measure him/herself.

All enlightenment models are crap (mine & Kenneth's included). Anyone who pushes a given enlightenment model is just trying to sell you something. (Time=money)

There is no such thing as enlightenment. Enlightenment is just a word. Before "enlightenment" you'll think you are suffering. After "enlightenment" you'll know that you are simply experiencing suffering and that is not you. Does it matter? That's up to you. But sooner rather than later you'll be dead.

Most of the members of KFDh don't need Kenneth to teach them meditation, they need to understand that Kenneth can only teach them a process; the process that Kenneth teaches is in general very effective, especially for beginners, and I still recommend it for beginners.

[continued next post]

[continued from last post]
Understanding that, the wrapper that is put around this teaching is very permeable.

Your birth began when you started to equate experience with 'who you are'. Who were you before you were born? Simply experience. Who will you be after you die? Simply experience. No 'you' involved.

Pay or not. The end result is the same.

Hi Jorge,
Thanks for the clarification. I see your point.
I also don't see the point of August posting up preachings without wanting to discuss / reply to others, which is the whole point of a forum.

No preachings here. if that's what you want, go elsewhere.

"I also don't see the point of August posting up preachings without wanting to discuss / reply to others, which is the whole point of a forum.
"

Apparently, that's what happens when one gets to such high level of enlightenment, Yadid. Who would not like to listen to someone who is so enlightened that simply preaches without listening to what everyone else has to say?
Discussion forum? transcended.

AugustLeo postings, apart from quoting and posting some interesting links from time to time, has no effect on my practice, other than to make Jorge Freddy chuckle from time to time when he reads and sees AugustLeo's crass behavior here in KFDh (I must add, that the chuckling does not rise as a desire or wish for mockery, but from the preposterous actions he is deciding to perform, while holding to the idea that his enlightenment and awakening is so supreme that need no retort) I do worry however for the new and unexperienced yogis, who may find AugustLeo's behavior counterproductive to their practice, or worse yet, get them to question the end result (I know that if I was a beginning yogi, to see such display from such an enlightened being, would make me think twice about continuing the journey).
Ultimately, Kenneth is both the owner and mediator of KFDh, and although I must say I do not agree with his decision of allowing such behavior to take place here, I will respect his decision. But not without first trying to twist his arm a little bit by suggesting him to kindly ask AugustLeo to simply conform to the existing KFDh format. If you have an experience, or a thought, or an idea; go on and write about it, and expand on what, why, and how your practice has shaped your experience, and how and why this may or may not related to everyone else's thoughts, ideas and/or experiences.

My two venezuelan cents, heaven only knows how much they are worth